Airbag light

[Modmytop]

Hi all,

newbie here so bear with me.

Hope one (or more) of you learned bingo owners can help me.
I have a MK2 52 plate 2.0 HDi Multispace, with air con, ABS, pass airbag and modutop.
Anyway main problem now is airbag light, plus "Passenger Airbag Deactivated" light are illuminated and MOT is end of Jan! Airbag light came on when Bingo was about 2 yr old.

(St)Dealer removed connectors under drivers seat and all was well for a number of years.

FYI Had the Comm 2000 problem with the indicators as well. Initially under warranty, then some years later I changed it for one from FleaBay. Seems to have been reliable since. Problem was indicator stalk plastic bit fouling main beam etc.

Anyway, MOT has changed to include airbag fault light. Mine has been on permanently for years. Only recently realised that passenger airbag deactivated light is also lit, but it was prob on for years also. Have found that activating or deactivating the pass airbag via the switch on the right hand side of the dash does nothing. Took out switch, found 100 ohms when ON, and 400 ohms when off. Seems too precise to be wrong.

Forgot to mention, have seat lateral airbags aswell.

So 2 connectors under pass and 3 under drivers seat. Drivers seat, all bypassed except seatbelt warning, which seems to work OK. On Pass side, I didn't have an OBD II scanner so I assumed it must be the connectors under the seat. I bypassed the connectors, but unfortunately airbag light(s) still on.

Bought a cheap OBD II scanner off Amazon (Maxscan300). I know that cos car is diesel and pre 2004 it doesn't have to be OBD II compliant, but what the hell. Got good reviews on amazon. Anyway no joy. Get no comms at all. Also borrowed RAC labelled tool (RAC HP145 - MAXSCAN MS409) and that didn't connect either. Guess only Citroen's Lexia 3 will do? Anyone got one in Waterlooville?

Pins in the Bingo's OBD connector are 1, 4, 5 , 7, 11, 12, 13, and 16.
I believe 4 and 5 are grounds, 16 is 12V. The presense of pin 7 implies ISO 9141/14230. The scanner does stall a while when protocol KWP2000 is showing ? But eventually gives up.

To add, some will suggest the infamous Comm 2000 to be at fault. This seems to be working, in that the indicators work, the horn works. The airbag may or may not work... ?

In addition it may not be related but:
Radio volume turns it self down. Factory fitted radio/cassette with steering controls.
Sometimes when indicating right, the sound of the indicators is muted, even though the dashboard signal is operating. Don't know if the external indicators are actually flashing or not.

Have checked fuses, in BSI and under bonnet (BSF), all look OK, with no water, liquid ingress.

Can anyone suggest what diag tool will work with my Bingo? BTW, as it was an early MK2, the wiring, fuses etc don't match the Haynes manual. Contacted Haynes about it, and they sent me 3 different sets of diagrams/fuse layouts, none of which match my bingo. Obviously a worry when french electrics have a reputation for unreliability.

Will probably replace the Comm 2000 with the old one i have (doesn't self cancel indicators - but think Ok otherwise).

Does anuone have any ideas why the pass Airbag Deactivated light would be on?

Also, people constantly mention about not testing airbags with multimeters etc, but OBD checks for open and short circuits. So it must be sending some current to airbags/pretensioners?

Does anyone know how airbags are actually triggered? is it simply a current? Or a message sent over a bus?

Cheers
Bri

[Ol'Jeffers]

At the end of the dash visible when the driver's door is open is there
a switch to disable airbags when a child seat is fitted? I have this on my '06.
If this switch is present on yours I would switch it a few times.
We have our resident guru Rustscrat who will, when he reads this, require your VIN No.
so he can dig out the correct drawings and circuit diagrams for your car. That will
be your proper starting point. Oh! Welcome to our place!

[Coco]

Hello to you.

Have a read here:-
http://www.berlingoforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=3860

This is my tale, may be some help to you.

[Modmytop]

Hi 'Ol'Jeffers'. Thanks for responding. As I said in my post, I pulled out this Passenger Airbag Deactivation switch and measured resistance of 100 and 400 ohms. Was initially expecting it to be simple closed or open circuit, but airbag system probably needs to know switch is operating properly, and the wiring hasn't shorted to chassis etc. Can anyone confirm these resistance values are correct?

---

Hello to you.

Have a read here:-
http://www.berlingoforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=3860

This is my tale, may be some help to you.

Hi Coco, yes have read yours and many others on subject of BSI, airbags and the like. No visible water evidence on BSI (I haven't taken it out though, so only external look).

Forgot to mention speedo occasionally goes to zero (why does car feel much more responsive?). Not changed anything for this yet as it doesn’t happen that much and only lasts a few secs. But is it a clue to a BSI fault say?

I guess I am going to need a Lexia or Planet tool to narrow in on this.

[Ol'Jeffers]

Well before you do anything further let our friend Rustscrat have a look at
this....maybe he's come across this before. As you saw from Coco's post if
you have a wiring fault a diagnostics check can mislead you.
There is an excellent Lexia clone seller on ebay who will give unlimited
telephone assistance if you buy from him and he really knows his stuff.
I'll take a look through my emails tomorrow but I'm pretty certain that this is the
equipment on offer maybe a different seller though.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diagbox-V5-02-...416fa2a3e0

[Modmytop]

Well before you do anything further let our friend Rustscrat have a look at
this....maybe he's come across this before. As you saw from Coco's post if
you have a wiring fault a diagnostics check can mislead you.
There is an excellent Lexia clone seller on ebay who will give unlimited
telephone assistance if you buy from him and he really knows his stuff.
I'll take a look through my emails tomorrow but I'm pretty certain that this is the
equipment on offer maybe a different seller though.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diagbox-V5-02-...416fa2a3e0

I have since tried my cheapo scanner tool on a focus (2005 petrol) and it worked fine. Could be using different protocol and hence pins, so not definite proof it is OK. I reckon being pre 2004 diesel, my Bingo is not OBD II compliant.

As I understand it, the presense of pin 7 indicates use of the ISO 9141 or ISO 14230 (KWP2000) protocols. The tester should have a 510 ohm pull up resistor and a transistor to pull line low. The car also has a tranny to pull line low. I intend to stick a resistor from pin 7 to pin 16 (Vbatt) on the car connector. It should be close to battery voltage. It appears from what I've read that both protocols require an initation sequence to wake the OBD port up. And if there are no requests from the tester for something like 3 secs it goes back to sleep and you have to give it the init sequence again.

BTW for anyone who's interested in the detail of the protocols used in OBD, the ELM website is useful, http://www.elmelectronics.com.

Unfortunately this is our only car, so can only work on it at weekends, and MOT is getting ever closer. Thanks for help/interest so far.

---

I forgot to mention the speedo occasionally goes to zero. In case it may be related in some way. Funny, engine seems much more responsive when it happens!

[Tubby]

Modmytop,

My airbag light is also playing up due to a faulty comms 2000 unit. with regard to the MOT, mine passed recently with only an advisory. The tester told me there is some confusion regarding the legality of failing due to the warning light. it appears VOSA included the airbag warning light ( and apparently other SRSs) in order to bring the UK in line with the rest of the EU. However there is currently no legislation that makes it illegal to drive a vehicle with a defective airbag system.

In my view, as an ex Police Sergeant, this makes sense. clearly, defective brakes being an offence under construction and use regs and Road Traffic Act there is a legal basis for a fail. Likewise for lights and wipers. Saying this, thinking as I type, Is it illegal to drive a vehicle with higher exhaust emisions unless they are excessive and provide a smokescreen?

As you've probably gathered, traffic wasn't my area of expertise. It all seems a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is up to.

Good luck to you , hope you manage to sort it.

Tubby

[Modmytop]

Modmytop,

My airbag light is also playing up due to a faulty comms 2000 unit. with regard to the MOT, mine passed recently with only an advisory. The tester told me there is some confusion regarding the legality of failing due to the warning light. it appears VOSA included the airbag warning light ( and apparently other SRSs) in order to bring the UK in line with the rest of the EU. However there is currently no legislation that makes it illegal to drive a vehicle with a defective airbag system.

In my view, as an ex Police Sergeant, this makes sense. clearly, defective brakes being an offence under construction and use regs and Road Traffic Act there is a legal basis for a fail. Likewise for lights and wipers. Saying this, thinking as I type, Is it illegal to drive a vehicle with higher exhaust emisions unless they are excessive and provide a smokescreen?

As you've probably gathered, traffic wasn't my area of expertise. It all seems a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is up to.

Good luck to you , hope you manage to sort it.

Tubby

Hi Tubby,
How do you know your airbag light is de to the Comm 2000?

The info I read on MOT testing is quite specific that the lights should come on then go out. If they stay on its a fail. Sounds like some testers will pass, some fail.

To be honest I need to get it sorted, MOT or not. Bit pointless having 4 airbags when they won't go off when we need them!

[Rustscrat]

Hi, to read the Bsi you need to connect to pin 11. Pin 7 is for the engine ecu.
I would ring out your data lines (9013 & 9012) as in Coco's post. These feed the airbag ecu, Com2000 and the engine bay fuse box (Bsf). The best way to get an accurate fault read is find someone with lexia or PP2000.
Air bags + pre tensioners are fired off with pyrotechnic charges so as long as you disconnect the battery and wait 5mins. you should be able to disconnect the the air bags etc. DON'T measure across the device terminals as this could trigger the explosive. If your not sure don't do it.
Let us know how you get on. :thumbsup:

[Ol'Jeffers]

BANG!!!!! OOPS!!

You Modmytop and Rustscrat astonish me with your product knowledge. I was a radio ham at 15 and
worked for much of my life as an electro-mechanical engineer, but your grasp and willingness to get stuck in
are bloody amazing!! I doff my hat to you both.....apparently it's OK to doff if we're all consenting adults!