B9 TU5JP4 Petrol Engine & BE4/5 Gearbox into M59 Berlingo

[mabrown]

A photo showing very different gear shift arrangements, M59 on the left, B9 on the right.

   

How the B9 gear shift will need to sit in my M59 Berlingo.

   

Mark

[Col]

Why not use the pre 2002 MA5 with cable clutch and rod change?

[mabrown]

Why not use the pre 2002 MA5 with cable clutch and rod change?

Hi Col,

I got the new engine complete with BE4 box. I toyed with the idea of putting my original MA5 box on it but my MA5 has almost 160k kms on it and has been whining since 80k so a rebuild is in order. My understanding is that the MA5 in my Berlingo is underdone for this application and was beefed up by PSA later. Side by side the BE4 looks more solid and mine has less than 10k on it.

Was the pre-2002 MA5 a stronger box? I have been working in a bit of a vacuum info-wise due to the relative rarity of PSA cars here.

Cheers,

Mark

[Col]

They are not an especially strong box, but were fitted to those engines from the factory in quite a few models. In my experiance it is the bearings that fail, and they are easy to replace with better SKF bearings..
I did a *how to* on another forum covering strip down and rebuild.

[mabrown]

They are not an especially strong box, but were fitted to those engines from the factory in quite a few models. In my experiance it is the bearings that fail, and they are easy to replace with better SKF bearings..
I did a *how to* on another forum covering strip down and rebuild.

Hi Col,

I found your post on the Peugeot206cc forum (and book marked it; awesome tutorial!).

It is still a possibility that I will go that way and it would resolve all of the fitting issues. I'm going to continue with the BE4 for the minute and see how far I get. The remaining mounting components for the engine & box should be here before the weekend.

Cheers,

Mark

[Col]

Hi Col,

I found your post on the Peugeot206cc forum (and book marked it; awesome tutorial!).

It is still a possibility that I will go that way and it would resolve all of the fitting issues. I'm going to continue with the BE4 for the minute and see how far I get. The remaining mounting components for the engine & box should be here before the weekend.

Cheers,

Mark

Thanks. Glad you found it helpful.
Good luck with the convertion.

[pk7478]

to replace with better SKF bearings..

Most of original bearings are made by NTN. SKF bearings are not better, especially VKBA 915

It's a bad idea to change power unit. Of course you'll replace all mechanical stuff.
But what will you do with electric equipment ?

[mabrown]

It's a bad idea to change power unit. Of course you'll replace all mechanical stuff.
But what will you do with electric equipment ?

It seemed like a good idea at the time!

For better or worse I'm too far in now not to carry this through and I'm not easily defeated. I figure if a forum member here is able to put a V6 into a Partner then the 1.6 petrol, which was a factory option almost everywhere else but Australia, has to be doable.

At this stage I have a Peugeot 206 matched set BSI, ECU, key & barrel. The BSI is a Siemens with exactly the same physical configuration as the original TU3JP BSI. The 206 BSI has been plugged into the van's existing TU3JP loom and everything which can be tested works; Lights, indicators, cluster etc.

ECU is an ME7.4.5 which is matched to this BSI and which should, I think, maintain the emissions requirements of the engine. I still need to deal with engine loom issues and will need to do some splicing but I have a complete B9 loom and all of the connectors I need. Are you able to see any reason why this should not work?

Cheers,

Mark

[Gadgetman]

One point to note about the gearbox is that the sensor on the flywheel is actually fastened to the gearbox(the edge of the bell housing to be exact), at least on the TU3JP engine and its old MA5 gearbox. And there are at least two different mounts. There's also at least 2 different connector models on the sensors, too. So wrong sensor could mean you have to get a new sensor, or hack the loom to fit a new connector. (Not a good idea. This is a Hall-effect sensor with Coax cable)

Now, all this talk about the TU3 being a slow or underpowered engine...
It's quite a capable engine if you're not afraid to 'challenge it' and possibly use more 'aggressive gearing'. There even exists a 90bHP model of it... (From the AX GTi, I believe) Anything that can survive in a rallycar can't be all bad...
It's not the right engine if you often drive with a full load, though.

Now, the 1.1i (TU1 ?) that some of the earliest Berlingos were equipped with... THAT was a bad choice...

[mabrown]

One point to note about the gearbox is that the sensor on the flywheel is actually fastened to the gearbox(the edge of the bell housing to be exact), at least on the TU3JP engine and its old MA5 gearbox. And there are at least two different mounts. There's also at least 2 different connector models on the sensors, too. So wrong sensor could mean you have to get a new sensor, or hack the loom to fit a new connector. (Not a good idea. This is a Hall-effect sensor with Coax cable)

Thanks for the info regarding the sensor. I will check today to see if there is an issue with it. At this stage I'm fitting the complete B9 engine & box with loom so hopefully it won't be a problem.

Now, all this talk about the TU3 being a slow or underpowered engine...
It's quite a capable engine if you're not afraid to 'challenge it' and possibly use more 'aggressive gearing'. There even exists a 90bHP model of it... (From the AX GTi, I believe) Anything that can survive in a rallycar can't be all bad...
It's not the right engine if you often drive with a full load, though.

Now, the 1.1i (TU1 ?) that some of the earliest Berlingos were equipped with... THAT was a bad choice...

I actually found the TU3JP to be strong mechanically and it was me who killed it. I think it had plenty of life left in it had I changed its timing belt! I was using the van for courier work, sometimes with 6-700kg in the back. The engine was underpowered for that. When I saw the virtually new 1.6 NFU & BE4/5 for sale complete at a price competitive with a second hand TU3JP on its own it seemed a no brainer. Opened up a can of worms though.