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Instrument cluster problem? or BSI?
#1
Ok this a bit of an odd one but I will try to explain what I know. I figure the more info the better so sorry if I go on a bit.

1.4 berlingo Mk 1 year 2000 left hand drive.

I bought this car a while ago as a non runner, a garage had fixed bad earthing points on inner pillar which were rusty but couldn´t get car started. All the earths tested ok so I got a Lexia and found the keys were not programmed to the car. Once I sorted this out all was fine...well kind of.... but not really.

If I take the car on a short run and turn the ignition off while the car is still cold the dash will make a repeated humming noise (which is the clocks repeatedly returning to 0) like it is trying to shut down or something. The next time I start the car the dash will be dead until everything has warmed up which can take quite a while. When the dash is dead with no lights or dials, everything still operates ok (indicators lights wipers etc.) I just cant see any information.

If I always run the car for long trips and it has a chance for the cabin to heat up then everything is fine, no problems at all. 

What I find most odd is that it is all cured when the interior heats up. If I forget to put the heating on then it doesn´t matter how warm the engine is the problem will appear. I have found that the heating makes it very warm behind the dash but also where the Bsi is. I checked the Bsi for dry joints but would have to remove the needles to look at the instruments board.

When things are working ok I can get the Lexia working to do a global diagnostic, here is some of the information I get:

-no dialog with instrument panel

-airbag warning light short circuit to -ve or open circuit.
 airbag intemitent fault (not sure if this is relevant, might be caused by the other problems)

bsi-

-permanent fault
 no communication from Bsi on VAN

-permanent fault
 communication with the instrument panel absent

-permanent fault
 communication on DATA wire of comfort network.

-permanent fault
 communication on DATA B wire of comfort network.

*permanent fault
 evaporator sensor (? I don´t have climate control !)

*intemitent fault EOBD or engine ECU

another point:
I checked the twisted pair behind radio each to earth and was surprised that one was 1.5 volts lower than the other. Is that normal?

I have been using the car like this for years now so I have a very good idea of how it behaves.
now with a new MOT coming up in a few weeks and the problem worstning I have to get it sorted or the car will be scrap so would be very grateful of any advice.

any ideas?
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#2
Take out the BSI and check for water ingress, MK1 are are known for that. From Lexia output you have
a communication issue. Please check you CAN lines and 12+, earth on BSI connector.
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#3
Have you heard of a bsi reset?
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#4
(03-11-2014, 09:27 AM)homeruk Wrote:  Have you heard of a bsi reset?
Yep. every now and then other problems like unstable revs crop up and I have to do a bsi reset. It doesn´t cure the original problem though
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#5
(03-11-2014, 07:47 AM)brajomobil Wrote:  Take out the BSI and check for water ingress, MK1 are are known for that. From Lexia output you have
a communication issue. Please check you CAN lines and 12+, earth on BSI connector.

I have previously had the Bsi board out and it was like new, no signs at all of water damage anywhere. 

Do you know where I can get hold of a wiring diagram to identify these. 
To be sure I get this right, do you mean removing the plug (blue?) and checking the pins on the Bsi. each CAN line to earth and 12+ to earth?
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#6
(03-11-2014, 07:32 PM)Chrispy Wrote:  Do you know where I can get hold of a wiring diagram to identify these. 
To be sure I get this right, do you mean removing the plug (blue?) and checking the pins on the Bsi. each CAN line to earth and 12+ to earth?

The can lines have twisted wires. So, unplug the conector from BSI find twisted wires, those are CAN lines.
Disconnect the battery, unplug connector from engine ECU and check continuity of lines from BSI to engine ECU.
You can short can lines on one end and check for short on engine ECU side plug. CAN lines are NOT connected to +12
or ground. But for communication of different computers on the CAN network you have to have 4 good wires.
Can Hi, Can LO, +12 , and ground. When you unplug connector check the pins on BSI and pins on engine ECU.
CAN lines have different colors as you go from ecu to ecu, but they are always twisted!
You can take can lines from eg aircon and connect to BSI can lines, it does't meter as long as you connect them the
right way. You can also check the CAN lines by measuring resistance between them while battery is disconnected, but
in that case you need to know the exact internal resistance of every ECU in car. (google can help on this)
Also you can download from torrent Citroen SEDRE , that is complete wiring of citroen cars. There you have
all the pinouts you need... Really easy to use. You have a really daunting task on you hands , good luck.
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#7
(05-11-2014, 09:14 AM)brajomobil Wrote:  
(03-11-2014, 07:32 PM)Chrispy Wrote:  Do you know where I can get hold of a wiring diagram to identify these. 
To be sure I get this right, do you mean removing the plug (blue?) and checking the pins on the Bsi. each CAN line to earth and 12+ to earth?

The can lines have twisted wires. So, unplug the conector from BSI find twisted wires, those are CAN lines.
Disconnect the battery, unplug connector from engine ECU and check continuity of lines from BSI to engine ECU.
You can short can lines on one end and check for short on engine ECU side plug. CAN lines are NOT connected to +12
or ground. But for communication of different computers on the CAN network you have to have 4 good wires.
Can Hi, Can LO, +12 , and ground. When you unplug connector check the pins on BSI and pins on engine ECU.
CAN lines have different colors as you go from ecu to ecu, but they are always twisted!
You can take can lines from eg aircon and connect to BSI can lines, it does't meter as long as you connect them the
right way. You can also check the CAN lines by measuring resistance between them while battery is disconnected, but
in that case you need to know the exact internal resistance of every ECU in car. (google can help on this)
Also you can download from torrent Citroen SEDRE , that is complete wiring of citroen cars. There you have
all the pinouts you need... Really easy to use. You have a really daunting task on you hands , good luck.
Thanks for all that I will see what I can find out.
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