hey everybody
noob here, thanks for taking the time to read
1999 Berlingo VP 1.4
VIN: VF7MCKFXF65364754
RPO: 8275
short van "800"
right hand drive
TUJ3P engine
5 speed manual
correctly removed battery to do some engine bay work (battery acid leak from previous bettery), charged, tested, refitted it & performed BSI reset (not even sure this model has one, nor does it appear to have immobilisation)
with ignition on, only battery, hand/park brake & oil lights illuminate - engine cranks but wont fire, there is no spark, i can hear the fuel pump running
disconnected the ECU & everything's the same - checked power to ECU pin 13 OK, so i know the ECU is getting power
it ran fine prior - suggestions anyone?
also, i have access to the service.citroen.com site, but for the life of me i cannot find an ignition circuit, nor can i find information telling me which relay is which (6 relays in the cabin, 3 in the engine bay fuse box) i found nice diagrams with numbers, but no references to the numbers to identify each relay
is the engine management relay the one mounted under the left guard? and i presume the fuel relay is the one mounted inside the engine bay in front of the fuse box
any assistance with any of the above would be very much appreciated
thanks in advance
Just a thought have you got the fuel cut off button near the battery that shuts down in the event of a crash. When you removed the battery did you knock it.
i can hear the fuel pump running & have checked there is fuel pressure at the injector rail, there is no spark,,,,,, could be the crank angle sensor, the ECU,, the BSI (if there is one) - i'll phone citroen tomorrow & find out if it has a BSI & immobiliser
i found the ignition circuit (called fuel injection circuit) and found the pin-out numbers for the ECU, checked pin 13 and ECU has power
Quick test of the ignition circuits is to disconnect the cable going to the coilpack. That should give a big, easy-to-see error light on the dash. (The yellow 'Engine' symbol that normally goes out soon after you switch on the ignition)
Problems with the angle sensor will also result in a permanent ECU light on the dash.
The fuel Injection circuit is NOT the ignition circuit.
(It runs the injectors.)
The best test there is to use the Lexia tool, really, as it can run them without cranking the engine or pressurizing the fuel line. Then you can actually HEAR the injectors clicking!
The BSI wasn't fitted until 2000, I believe.
(10-04-2015, 10:21 AM)Gadgetman Wrote: [ -> ]Quick test of the ignition circuits is to disconnect the cable going to the coilpack. That should give a big, easy-to-see error light on the dash. (The yellow 'Engine' symbol that normally goes out soon after you switch on the ignition)
Problems with the angle sensor will also result in a permanent ECU light on the dash.
The fuel Injection circuit is NOT the ignition circuit.
(It runs the injectors.)
The best test there is to use the Lexia tool, really, as it can run them without cranking the engine or pressurizing the fuel line. Then you can actually HEAR the injectors clicking!
The BSI wasn't fitted until 2000, I believe.
i get no yellow "engine" symbol at all, not even for a moment - yet i have 12volts to the ECU at pin 13
was immobilization also added around the yr 2000?
i'll try unplugging the coil pack & see what i see
I think you need to either get hold of a Lexia tool, or pull the binnacle and check the bulbs.
Because the engine management lamp is supposed to switch on for a second or three after you switch on the ignition.
(The ECU switches it off as soon as it has finished initialising, if it doesn't detect an error situation of course)
(10-04-2015, 07:58 PM)Gadgetman Wrote: [ -> ]I think you need to either get hold of a Lexia tool, or pull the binnacle and check the bulbs.
Because the engine management lamp is supposed to switch on for a second or three after you switch on the ignition.
(The ECU switches it off as soon as it has finished initialising, if it doesn't detect an error situation of course)
if the ECU dash bulb is good & i get no ECU lamp even for a second,, seems likely the ECU itself is dead then right?
No. it can also be a wire break somewhere.
You'll need the exact same make and model ECU if you want to swap it out, and they're not cheap, even second-hand.
Different models have different pin-outs, so even if the connector is the same, a different one won't work without a complete change of the loom. (Been there, done it, has the mental scars from it. This is a painful operation if done 'in car')
I believe the fuel pump is activated by the ECU, so that is an indication that it works.
Check that all the fuses are OK, and also that the two round connectors in the front of the engine compartment are properly seated. (The two that ties the loom into the rest of the car electrics)
Get a 12V bulb, pull the connector from one of the injectors, then hook up some wires between the plug and the bulb.
It should flash rapidly when you crank the engine.
You can also get hold of a set of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spark-Plug-Teste...ls&vxp=mtr
Pull the coil cassette, then install them between the cassette and the spark plugs.
Note that they'll fire in pairs.
(It's called a 'wasted spark' system)
checked all engine bay & cabin fuses OK
remove instrument cluster, checked all bulbs OK, cleaned all connectors (abrasive "ink-type" eraser)
checked ECU connector, removed connector cover & checked wires - no corrosion, cleaned with contact cleaner
removed all engine bay connectors (those two big round ones, all sensors, etc), cleaned with contact cleaner, re-seated repeatedly
disconnected large relay mounted fwd of engine bay fuse box next to diagnostic port, contact cleaned connectors (is this the fuel pump relay?)
disconnected large relay mounted fwd of engine bay fuse box (access from under guard/fender), contact cleaned connectors (what relay is this?)
still no ECU light at ignition, ECU light does not illuminate when coil pack disconnected
can no longer hear fuel pump operating - continuity checked red button OK
noticed battery terminal spark when connecting battery, so even with everything off something is drawing power - battery completely drained after 4 days - this did not occur with MASSIVE 80 amp engine bay fuse (marked C) removed - what circuit does this fuse power?
any further pointers?? can Citroen test my ECU?
silly question, but could a faulty ignition switch be the problem? i did have this happen once before, but after performing the BSI reset procedure a few times the car ran again (no BSI in this car, so essentially disconnecting & reconnecting the battery several times)
any further assistance you may be able to provide would be very much appreciated,, i really need to get this car working
Not certain what the relay under fender is(Never seen one there?) but the big one forward of the fuse box IS the one controlling the fuel pump.
A bitof a spark when reconnecting a battery cable is normal. Battery being drained in 4 days is not...
(Mine is often left unused for weeks with no start problems afterwards. The bl**dy VW Caddy at the office, with a breathalyzer connected to the ignition, though... )
Those Maxi-fuses aren't listed in any fuse list anywhere, and are supposed to only be messed with by Citroën authorizd machanics.
Anyways...
They are drawn into schematics in the Haynes manual, and it goes to the Horn(F7), heated rear window, the 'Engine Running Relay', assorted direction and hazard lights(through fuse F26), electric windows, central locking(through F14, F15), Air-Con(through F25, F29), interior lights(F25)
Kind of a 'grab all' fuse, really.
I assume any authorized garage can test the ECU, but mostly if it's in the car.
Which brand and model ECU do you have?
(Some of them are listed in another Haynes book, which I happen to have)