Hi everybody..
I'll keep things short and to the point.
I'm in France and in desperate need of a cheap car. I found a 2002 Berlingo Multispace with a legal MOT, its not allowed to be older than six months here for a seller to be able to sell.
All looked ok for a cheap vehicle, until I took it for a drive. Started ok, on the button in fact, idled ok too, but driving at between 2/3000 rpm I was getting nowhere fast. I thought at first it just needed a good thrashing as the elderly owner had only used it to drive to the local village everyday.
Alas, on further inspection, 2/3000 rpm was all I was able to obtain. No warning lights on dash though. I thought at first the motor was a 1.9 non turbo, known to be very slow/sluggish, but no, on checking all the documentation its a 2.0 hdi. After owning a couple of 306's I know that the 2.0 hdi engine is a beast, and certainly not sluggish.
So, what do I do? Cheap vehicles with a full MOT here are rare indeed. I'm pretty competent with the tools, but I'm afraid if I buy this car I'm going to end up spending lots of money on garage diagnosis that I certainly can't afford. Can anybody point me in the direction of finding the fault here, and make some suggestions as how I can go about sorting this car?
Buy the way, I don't have any kit here to be able to test fault codes.
Many thanks in anticipation..
Dave..
Welcome to the forum.
My 2.0 HDi had the same problem, it turned out to be the MAF. You'll need an ODB reader to check if there are any faults logged, and to clear them. They don't cost much in the UK via eBay etc, so expect the same in France.
One quick check would be to disconnect the MAF and see if it makes a difference, there are a few threads on here about that which will probably turn up with a search on 'MAF'.
It may not all be relevant, but I posted a document on diagnosing limp mode on the HDi engines - it may help to look through for ideas. Limp mode has several different versions where the rpm is different, so it should help somewhat. Read the thread below and download the attachment.
https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-20797.html
MAF failure doesn't throw up a light on the dash so it's not easy to spot but disconnecting it does improve it straight away. I ran mine for a couple of days without MAF till I got one from the local spares shop.
Thank you so much for replies guys, I really appreciate it..
Over the last 24 hours I've been doing a lot more research on this particular car, and after ordering an OBD tester on Ebay, I was informed by a very knowledgable Frenchman that the 2001 Citroen HDI didn't conform to OBD2, so gave me a refund on my payment.
After much digging on the net I can confirm his statement. At first I thought the car was 2002, but on further inspection it was first registered in 30/01/2002 so obviously a 2001 car. Apparently there were two different systems used, Siemens and Bosh. What this car is I haven't a clue at the moment. However, it seems the bad news is I'm into a black-hole as far as being able to fault find via codes.
Any ideas as to what code reader (if any) is actually compatible with a 2001 HDI would be gratefully received..
Many thanks
Dave..
I'd forgotten about the older (pre 2004?) cars not having OBD. The older versions of Lexia hardware / software had some alternative diagnostic connectors that may do what you need.
For example, (I have not used this supplier):
https://www.obd2shop.co.uk/wholesale/cos...gKK-PD_BwE
Does your car have any diagnostic connectors?
In the mean time, disconnecting the MAF may be worth a try.
(28-10-2022, 11:26 AM)cancunia Wrote: [ -> ]I'd forgotten about the older (pre 2004?) cars not having OBD. The older versions of Lexia hardware / software had some alternative diagnostic connectors that may do what you need.
For example, (I have not used this supplier):
https://www.obd2shop.co.uk/wholesale/cos...gKK-PD_BwE
Does your car have any diagnostic connectors?
In the mean time, disconnecting the MAF may be worth a try.
Thank you for that conformation..
I do find it odd that a 2000+ car isn't OBD compatible, especially a major manufacturer such as Citroen. I've an old 1998 Volvo V70 Tdi and that's ok with OBD.
Re your question "does the car have any diagnostic connectors" I'm afraid to say I don't know. I went to look at the car on Wednesday, and as always there's so much to take in when buying old used cars. Taking it for a test drive and experiencing the performance totally threw me, and I stopped looking for other faults. I did look in the fuse box tray because the electric windows weren't working, but not thoroughly I'm afraid.
I've a decision to make now, do I pursue the car further, its a 1 1/2 hour journey away, pull the MAF connector and look for a diagnostic connector or forget it. To be honest I'm loathe to forget it as trying to find a cheap car with a full MOT here in France is like searching for a needle in a haystack.
My only concern is, if I do buy the car and get it back to my place, I'm up against a technical fault that I don't have the technical tools to diagnose. I will check out your link though.
Many thanks..
Dave..
OBD was never standardised until 2002 by EU law and became EOBD. Prior to that, it was manufacturer specific and all interfaces were different. Most followed the K-Line system using two wires (grey + black) but I have no idea where that connector would be on a 21 year old Berlingo.
Look through that document I linked you to, and see what issues cause 3000 rpm limp mode, there aren't that many. Then you can check those items.
(28-10-2022, 07:13 PM)Zion Wrote: [ -> ]OBD was never standardised until 2002 by EU law and became EOBD. Prior to that, it was manufacturer specific and all interfaces were different. Most followed the K-Line system using two wires (grey + black) but I have no idea where that connector would be on a 21 year old Berlingo.
Look through that document I linked you to, and see what issues cause 3000 rpm limp mode, there aren't that many. Then you can check those items.
You certainly learn something new everyday. Now I'm armed with the knowledge that my prospective purchase is pre OBD2, its sharpened and concentrated my mind somewhat. I've had a good read of the document.. plenty of good tips there.
I'm probably going to 'try' and pick the car up sometime next week. Its about an hour and a half from my place, but the route is, lets say trying, even in a car running normally. Let alone.. I'll be negotiating inclines and tortuous bends for the majority of it. I'll no doubt have a long line of very irate Frenchmen up behind me.. haha
At least when I do eventually arrive at my place I can relax somewhat. I have a decent sized garage (old cow shed) and plenty of tools. If I can't find the problem by using the tips I've picked up here I'll probably have to look into getting hold of the Lexia kit. Need to nail that though because it seems a lot of the copies on FleaBay are knockoffs demanding high prices.
Wish me luck..
Dave..
Good luck!
So far as the engine is concerned, there's not a lot that goes wrong on the 2.0. The only other thing that comes to mind is that the head gasket has been known to go. Water in the oil and discoloured coolant are tell tales.
If you disconnect the MAF, you may get an instant fix.
So far as Lexia / Diagbox is concerned, they are all knockoffs..
If in doubt, post a link of what you're thinking of buying, hopefully someone will be able to advise.