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+--- Thread: Fuel pipe air ingress (/thread-17912.html)
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Fuel pipe air ingress - Ikanpaul - 09-01-2019
Hi all,
My 1.9d van 2002 has developed lumpy starting after being stopped for more than 6 hours or more , I have replaced all glow plugs also fuel filter housing with priming button and replaced filter to pump clear plastic pipe(push fitting to filter cover if wobbled a little would show air being sucked in) with a good quality hose and fitted a diesel specific non return valve , I do not believe the problem to be temperature related more of an air ingress problem.
I have checked all connections and pipework replaced all leak of pipes and cap , no sign of leaks on pump whatsoever .
The valve clearances were adjusted a while back at about 150k I think , it is now showing about 180k so unlikely to be compression related.
The engine will start then stop after a few seconds maybe 3 or 4 times then it is fine for rest of day if started maybe twice.
The cold start device is not working as have replaced this twice already since ownership and it merely speeds up idle a little anyway has no real effect on timing/fuelling I believe.
Help me please !!!
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - geoff - 09-01-2019
You say " its fine for the rest of the day " ........ this is a classic symptom of valve clearances closing up.
Anyway before going there I'd try pumping the fuel primer prior to the first cold start to see if it starts any better.
Then I'd get some plasticine and cover ALL connections to eliminate air ingress.
After that I'd whip the covers off to check the valve clearances - not a big job to check.
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - Ikanpaul - 09-01-2019
I was going to cover all connections with some thick white silicone grease but Geoff,s idea of using plastecine seems better and less messy thank you , I have no plastercine in house but plenty of blue tack so worth a try.
Priming I have tried but the primer button does not stiffen up even using 20 or more presses with ignition on or off to open fuel valve , it is also a brand new puflux unit not a nsty copy .
Would valve clearances close up again within 30k of them being re-shimmed as this van runs on good oil with very regular oil changes inc filter, SHELL HELIX ULTRA 5-30 i believe.
This problem is getting to me due to the long wait to check repair progress !
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - geoff - 09-01-2019
Unfortunately the choice of engine oil has no effect in preventing the valve clearances closing up as this is caused by valve recession into the valve seatings so isn't in an oil filled zone.
Yes valves can indeed close up again in such a modest mileage.
It isn't a given that this has happened so keep chasing down the quick and easy before diving in deep.
Cold start .. several years since I hve been involved with them, memory tells me they are a fiddle to set up correctly requiring checks and measurements in both engine cold and engine hot conditions, Haynes does cover this in their book and if you don't have one there is a copy on this forum for free download. Always worth a second look.
Do you undertake your own repairs and maintenance work ?
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - Ikanpaul - 09-01-2019
I do most maintenance myself , but leave cambelt / clutch and the like to a citroen specialist near me as they have a very good reputation , unfortunately they are too busy at moment to book it in.
I have owned this van about 8-10 years so know it inside out and if I had a workshop would love to delve deeper ,but working outside on the driveway just does not appeal right now , ps the valve clearances have only been done once since my ownership from about 40k so 30k miles should be fine surely .
The cold start cable has not moved for at least 18months yet this problem is only a week old so we can discount this device me thinks , thanks Paul.
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - geoff - 09-01-2019
All info helps, hopefully another person will be along with fresh thoughts.
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - Ikanpaul - 09-01-2019
(09-01-2019, 07:21 PM)Ikanpaul Wrote: I do most maintenance myself , but leave cambelt / clutch and the like to a citroen specialist near me as they have a very good reputation , unfortunately they are too busy at moment to book it in.
I have owned this van about 8-10 years so know it inside out and if I had a workshop would love to delve deeper ,but working outside on the driveway just does not appeal right now , ps the valve clearances have only been done once since my ownership from about 40k so 30k miles should be fine surely .
The cold start cable has not moved for at least 18months yet this problem is only a week old so we can discount this device me thinks , thanks Paul.
Sorry I forgot but would not poor oil / neglect cause faster wear of followers/lobes and shims causing less clearance , and closing of gaps faster thats what I was gettig at regarding the critical job oil should do .
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - geoff - 09-01-2019
The long and short of is the operating end of the valve / shim / bucket / valve lobe effectively sits in an oil bath and as such are not in this engine prone to wear, the design is such that even extreme abuse is unlikely to make much difference. Naturally shell bearings etc would be adversely affected.
Your issue started a week ago, have you been having locally some colder weather ?
edit : colder as in colder than the weeks prior to the fault appearing.
If you leave things alone and the weather warms up a few degrees let us know if the problem abates.
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - brodfather11 - 09-01-2019
" Priming I have tried but the primer button does not stiffen up even using 20 or more presses with ignition on or off to open fuel valve , it is also a brand new puflux unit not a nsty copy . "
It should stiffen up after 3/4 pumps , if not its drawing air between there and the fuel tank. damaged pipe/joints or fuel pick connection should be looked at, check that the fuel filter lid is seating properly .
Do the simple things first before taking apart to do the valves clearances which are built to do about 100k before adjustment required.
RE: Fuel pipe air ingress - Ikanpaul - 09-01-2019
Yes it makes sense that air is being sucked in as the primer used to stiffen up after the yearly filter change which was the only time it was needed , I will crawl beneath the van tomorrow and report back as I noticed tonight two more connections down low near inner wing at bulkhead where pipes straighten up to head back to tank.
Thanks .