[Transmission] Crunch!

[tommylurvebus]

Hey folks. Just after some opinions really. I run both 2004 car and van 2lt HDI berlingos  and have all the usual little problems that add to the character haha. The car has 120k miles and the van only 94 a spring chicken.... so this week the van started to crunch when going into 3rd. My mechanic said syncro problem due to wear. Got to say I am pretty gutted. I love that van.  Mechanic says change  gear carefully and live with, it will last for years........ Ok so mostly I can avoid the offensive crunch but changing down can be tricky as I have to blip the revs. The wife drives the van from time to time and is not going to be comfortable with it.   Is it possible to buy the synco part of the gear box? Does it have to be a gear box out and rebuild to fix? Should I just do as my mechanic says and live with it? I know he just wants to save me money but I spend a lot of time driving and enjoy it. This crunch will GRAIT on me for sure.  Last question. I recon we will replace the car in another 30000 miles or so. Would it be worth living with the problem till then and salvaging the a high millage gear box from the car. Hope that all made sense any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Cheers tommy.

[Gadgetman]

You can't really buy those parts.
At least I don't think they like to sell gearbox internals to other than specialist workshops.

The part(s) that are damaged are in the middle of the gearbox
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_tran...ansmission
So it's a 'box out and rebuild' yes.

Whether it's actually going to 'work for years' without repair...
I would be too worried about shavings from the gears and rings fouling other parts.

I'd start checking the cost of a replacement gearbox or what it would cost to rebuild, and comparing it to what it would cost you to have a sudden failure...

[tommylurvebus]

Ahh. Not the best of news then. Time for some research I guess. Thanks for taking the time to advise.

[ians_lingo]

good luck :-) keep us updated.Ian.

[tommylurvebus]

good luck :-) keep us updated.Ian.

Yep will do . Have requested some prices from gearbox specialists who claim to be able to remove fix and refit in a day. Clutch has probably seen better days. Does the clutch assembly have to come out with the gear box. (sorry very limited knowledge but always keen to know)
 

[Jed Clampit]

The clutch plate and pressure stay in if you want them to the thrust bearing come out with the box now if your going to keep  the berlingo change the lot if your going too get rid put it back in and sell asap 

[David_R]

I think this might be my first post on this forum, so if it is, hello all..

Regarding your 3rd gear crunch.   I have just bought a 2004HDI berlingo for my other half to replace the one she crashed (long story, not really relevant) and it has the same issue.. the syncro on 3rd is very weak.  4th is also quite weak.

Having had a good look at this issue with my Engineer's hat on, it's actually quite easy to see what's happened:  The BE range of gearboxes are slightly odd in that they have two of the selector hubs on the input shaft, and two of the selectors on the output shaft.  1/2 is on the output shaft and 3/4 is on the input shaft.  Critically, the input shaft is higher in the gearbox than the output shaft, so if the box is run low on oil, the 3/4 selectors (which includes the synchroniser hubs) will run dry.

Now also bear in mind that 3rd is the most changed-into gear in the gearbox, it will see the most wear anyway. Couple that with the synchroniser being starved of lubrication, and there's no surprise that it starts to wear out very quickly.

.... which is a shame really, as the BE range of gearboxes is usually remarkably tough.

Anyway.  First thing to do is to check the gearbox oil level and fill it up if it's empty.  You'll not be able to recover the syncro rings, but at least they won't get any worse.  To fix it, the only thing you can really do is change the gearbox for a known-good one.  The strip-and-rebuild option is very expensive.

That said, if you were to use a slightly heavier oil in the gearbox (EP 90 or similar), you may find that the syncro is quieter (better, whatever) but it will never be quite right.

The good news, however, is that the very minimal amount of shrapnel that will be created by worn out syncro rings will have been caught by the magnetic sump plug, so simply changing the oil (and cleaning off the plug magnet of course) will mean there's no damage to any other part of the gearbox.

Regarding your clutch.. while the Box is out, it's only about £50 for a three-part clutch and it would make absolute sense to change it : at least 60-70% of the cost of a clutch change is the labour, which is taking the box out.  With the box out it's a 5 minute job....

HTH

[tommylurvebus]

Cheers David. That makes sense. As to my progress I have spoken to 2 gearbox specialists. One wants to drop out the box fix the syncro will be 200 for removal and refit 200 for syncro fix bbbbbbbuut if any other issues are found it mmmmmay cost more. The other 595 for a recon fitted. In the mean time my mechanic is putting out feelers for a lower millage salvage although that's a gamble. Have a good day people....t

[Ol'Jeffers]

I think this might be my first post on this forum, so if it is, hello all......

Thanks for the very concise and helpful post David........Welcome to the forums, it's good here!