Berlingo Series II (Mark II) Intermittent starting issue

[Chayn]

Hello all, (Large read)

New here and have trolled through the threads trying to find an answer to help me (with no luck).

I'll start from the beginning.

Basically about 8 months ago I started having starting problems on my 2008 Berlingo 4cyl unleaded currently at 135,000km.

Problem is basically when I turn the key into the on position I will not hear the fuel pump prime. Car will fire to begin with (with what fuel is currently in the lines) then cut out. Continuous attempts to start the car will result in the engine turning over without issue but not firing. (this is an intermittent problem and no warning or common factors as to when it will happen - Can be cold hot wet dry makes no difference. It either will or wont)

This problem started about 2 weeks after I had my timing belt changed by the dealership. The day after I had the timing belt changed my engine went into safe mode and lost power briefly but the engine light had gone off by the time I got it back to the dealership for them to run the tests, so they sent me on my merry way - nothing to see here.

Shortly after the "pat on the back your imagining things" the starting problems began. Normally I can get the car started again after about 15minutes. Sometimes like last night can take 1 hour... times gone by has taken me a couple days of repeated attempts. I have had it in the dealership workshop at least 10 times in the last 8month to fix / find the issue.

They have been on the phone to Citroen here in Australia - sorry yes I'm an Aussie. Basically with the symptoms and mileage Citroen assumed it was my ECU .... I went along with their game and replaced it. 2 weeks later the problem came back. Back into the workshop nope nothing to see here no problem in the diagnostics. Back again few days later "Fuse relay tested faulty"

Ok so I replaced the Fuse relay now should work sweet right? I lasted 5 weeks until the problem came back. Back into the workshop again. They have had the car for 3 weeks (just got it back) And they have told me they have no idea what-so-ever as to what is wrong with the car.

I have talked to a diagnostician and the first 2 things he asked me was have I changed the battery and have I changed any light bulbs. I have changed both 1 week prior to having my timing belt done as my battery died suddenly (dealership had all this information). He has told me generally the Citroen models he has found or.. most euro cars he has found require 13v? for the engine to fire less than that 50/50 chance it will put the car in safe mode and just turn over like mine is.

I have a multi meter now and sure enough the battery is reading 13.2ish and will start fine. However this morning I just tested it at 12.75 and it also started fine... repeatedly. In short I hope it is just a faulty battery cell or something along those lines but if it is not does anyone here have any thoughts or ever had this problem?.

Additional info:

The dealership has apparently checked all of the following:

Wiring harness
Fuses
Grounding
Terminals

All the usual stuff you would normally go through (not sure if they ever tested the battery.... as it was only a couple weeks old at the time of the problem first appearing)

Any help appreciated at this point I'm just banging my head on my steering wheel and every time I get into the car I hold my breath - not because I left a fart in there.

Cheers guys,

Chayn

[divingscubaboy]

Hi Chayn
Thats an epic tale! I think the garage is talking shite. Basically they dont have a clue. The trouble is unless a book or screen tells them whats wrong there is no ability to fault find. The bit about needing 13v is crap. Most 12v cars etc will have a battery that reads around 12.4v after sitting overnight. Our gear needs to have at least 10.5v otherwise the ecu wont wake up.
If you think the intermittent fuel pump has something to do with it, i'd be chasing that down first. When the car fails to start check to see that the output wherever it comes from is constant. Failing that start at the pump and work back. I hope the garage is not charging you for not repairing it!

[Chayn]

Yeah they have no idea. Sadly they have taken a fair whack of money for ... no repairs... that have eventuated in a solution.

I have told them at least 4 times about the fuel pump not starting up and on the last occasion they asked for my spare key as the one I gave them with the car wasn't starting the fuel pump for some reason but was starting everything else.

Gave them the key.. obviously same result. They had recoded both keys the 5 weeks before I ran into trouble again. They have also said on all the other occasions they have tested the pump and its connections and they are perfectly fine. Granted I am no mechanic and hopeless with the underneath of a car so short of taking it to another person (which I will now have to as they have told me that they have NFI) I wont be able to figure out whats what.

I have had the car playing up in the driveway today the multimeter reads about 12.7 or so and it was starting at that as well as not..... 14.4 under load IF I can get it started. But today it took me about 2 hours before it would start again. Obviously this isn't acceptable if I have work to get done lol. Currently the engine light is on, I put this down to the fact that I disconnected the battery for about 5-10minutes before reconnecting (and the car finally worked). I'll have to wait until Monday before I can take it into the battery shop to have the battery tested for a faulty cell.

I HOPE it is as simple as a stuffed battery as all these problems really did only occur after the battery change. Which according to my records was about 2 weeks after my t-belt change. But knowing my luck it wont be so simple :'(

[Ol'Jeffers]

Hmmm....I've had the NFI syndrome from quite a few main dealers in the past and that included both VW and Volvo.
I would be writing to the managing director of that dealership clearly stating my case. As a main dealer they must be able to repair it and until they have successfully done so, as they accepted the work, you surely owe them nothing. The fact that they have obviously spent many hours incorrectly diagnosing various faults and replacing parts unnecessarily is not your problem. They are incompetent and they know it. The least they should be doing is supplying you with a loan vehicle whilst they decide what to do with yours.

[Chayn]

Yeah in Australia we don't get loan car's from anyone..

It's not in their policy so to speak.. or at least that's how they hide from having to do it. IMO I wouldn't run a business like that but.. what can you do. Laws in Australia seems to... help the dealerships mechanics out more than the consumer also.

There is a mechanic/dealership ombudsman you can complain to, but this very same dealership/mechanic ombudsman is the one that also defends them in a court of law against complaints from consumers (if it went that far) .....

I plan to visit a mechanic who specializes in euro cars.. hopefully he can help out. I would have seen him sooner, but would would expect the people that sell the car to know what they are doing right?

If anyone can think of what could be causing the problem I'll listen to anything lol.

[Ol'Jeffers]

Looks like you guys in Oz have a problem. The importers are nothing to do with Citroen and are an independent Australian company! Ateco Automotive Pty Ltd trading as Citroën Australia They can say and do what they like! :eek:

Here's a link: http://www.notgoodenough.org/viewtopic.php?p=327286

[Chayn]

Looks like you guys in Oz have a problem. The importers are nothing to do with Citroen and are an independent Australian company! Ateco Automotive Pty Ltd trading as Citroën Australia They can say and do what they like! :eek:

Here's a link: http://www.notgoodenough.org/viewtopic.php?p=327286

Thanks Jeffers.

Awesome link. That is me all over haha. They also say they call "Citroen Australia" (obviously not realllly Citroen).

Australia is an awesome place to live but at the same time if a business wants to screw you they can. Personally I couldn't see myself running my company like that - but what can you do.

[Ol'Jeffers]

Try writing to Citroen head office in France making sure that you state that Ateco aren't prepared to help you and that their main dealer is clueless.
You will ideally need someone fluent in French to translate your letter to them and to ensure that it goes to the right person.

I wouldn't let this slide by me, in fact I'd have a chat with a lawyer to find out exactly what my rights are.