[Steering & Suspension] Front camber out of alignment after wheel size change

[Civvic]

Hi folks,

Since I swapped my M59 14 Inch steels  (175/70/14) for 15 Inch 205gti speedlines (195/60/15), the front camber went out of alignment and after I took it to the best alignment shop, they let me know that there was nothing they could do to correct it as it is not adjustable. I followed up with the guy who sold me the rims coz he had also done swap from 15 inch to 16 Inch and he told me that he faced the same problem, but when he lowered the rear suspension at the torsion bars and redid alignment, it turned out fine.

Just to add on that, it appears that there is a possibility that our local M59's were factory raised at the rear as they appear slanting front-wards with the front closer to the ground than what I see on photos from other parts of the world, but I have no official information to back that up.

Can anybody confirm if lowering the rear suspension is the way to go to correct the camber or is it a waste of effort? Your expert opinion is highly coveted.

Thanks.

[polar]

Fail to see how altering the rear ride height will alter the camber - think about it how can it?

[Civvic]

Fail to see how altering the rear ride height will alter the camber - think about it how can it?

Thanks for your reply. Well, so far it appears the only option to try before taking another step which I hope will not end up with me returning the steel wheels.

I increased height does affect camber but I'm not sure if the rear torsion bars when lowered can correct the front camber. That's why I ask and I definitely would appreciate any input especially with experience in wheel size change.

[Col]

I can't see how increasing wheel diameter will alter camber either. You don't mean castor do you?

[Civvic]

I can't see how increasing wheel diameter will alter camber either. You don't mean castor do you?

Well, It actually did, but I don't have the figures coz it was a while back if only I could trace the report. The car was in perfect alignment before the swap and went out of alignment after. It was the same shop that had done the earlier alignment before the swap and twice after the swap. I don't remember whether the castor was off.

[Col]

I can't see how increasing wheel diameter will alter camber either. You don't mean castor do you?

Well, It actually did, but I don't have the figures coz it was a while back if only I could trace the report. The car was in perfect alignment before the swap and went out of alignment after. It was the same shop that had done the earlier alignment before the swap and twice after the swap. I don't remember whether the castor was off.

The camber is the amount the wheels leans in at the top from the bottom as measured from the vertical expressed in degrees ie X amount of  degrees neg camber.
If the wheels lean out at the top (like the old Hillman Imp) that is pos camber.

As the front strut is fixed at the top by the top mount, and fixed at the bottom to the wishbone, you can't move the top or bottom mounts in or out to adjust.
The only way I could see this happening is if the wheels had such a huge off set it was flexing the strut mounts but that seems doubtful. In any case there is only about 1/2" difference in height between the 2 sets of wheels.

[Col]

Here you go. So just fitting larger wheels cant change the camber angle.


[Image: wheel%202.gif]

[Image: camber.jpg]

[polar]

If the wheels do not have the correct set back of the dish e.g. The wheel protrudes further - not just the tyre being wider - it moves the centre line of the wheel further away and this can change the camber angle but in this case the incorrect wheels are fitted, it has the same effect of putting spacers behind the wheel. This is a very bad thing because if the vehicle suffers a blowout at speed loss of control can be sudden.

[Col]

Yes it will move the centre line of the wheel further out but the angle remains the same. The centre line is paralel with the camber angle. The angle is set by the angle of the stub axle/ strut not the width of the wheel.

Look at this [Image: 2012-296163-extreme-negative-oni-camber-...-20121.jpg]

I know it's extreme, but if you were to put wider or narrower wheels on, would it change the amount the wheel leans?

[Civvic]

I can't see how increasing wheel diameter will alter camber either. You don't mean castor do you?

Well, It actually did, but I don't have the figures coz it was a while back if only I could trace the report. The car was in perfect alignment before the swap and went out of alignment after. It was the same shop that had done the earlier alignment before the swap and twice after the swap. I don't remember whether the castor was off.

The camber is the amount the wheels leans in at the top from the bottom as measured from the vertical expressed in degrees ie X amount of  degrees neg camber.
If the wheels lean out at the top (like the old Hillman Imp) that is pos camber.

As the front strut is fixed at the top by the top mount, and fixed at the bottom to the wishbone, you can't move the top or bottom mounts in or out to adjust.
The only way I could see this happening is if the wheels had such a huge off set it was flexing the strut mounts but that seems doubtful. In any case there is only about 1/2" difference in height between the 2 sets of wheels.

Well, If I recall well, it was the front passenger side camber that was just outside the recommended range towards the positive sideI