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V5C Body type
#1
Good Morning All,
                           I own a 2014 Berlingo Enterprise and I am interested to know if anyone who also owns this van has the description "car-derived" under body type on their V5C ?  Thanks in advance
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#2
Big can of worms you're opening up now haha!

Mine doesn't as it is the L1 850 but some L1 625's seem to have that on the V5. Mine is simply LGV
2015 1.6 L1850 90ps In Artic Steel inc Look Pack and Lighting Pack.
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#3
(13-02-2017, 11:10 AM)Tree Wrote:  Big can of worms you're opening up now haha!

Mine doesn't as it is the L1 850 but some L1 625's seem to have that on the V5. Mine is simply LGV

Big can indeed!! I have received my first ever speeding ticket for travelling at exactly 70 mph on dual carriageway in a different county to my own. My county insist I haven't broken any law and advised me to fight ticket. My van is the L1 625 and therefore under the magic 2 tonnes weight limit. However, because it says panel van rather than car-derived on my V5C the ticket office in question believe I should have been travelling at no more than 60 mph. I was rather hoping a kind soul on here may have car-derived on their V5C so as to help me in my case.
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#4
It's quite possible that it was registered incorrectly, my car was registered as blue when it was actually silver. It took ages to get it changed which included letters of declaration from the manufacturer, so mistakes do happen.

However, as your V5C states that it is a panel van that is what will have triggered the summons. You can try to fight it in the courts but I doubt it will be worth the cost and effort as your V5C is clear about what it was registered as. Annoying, but 3 points on a clean licence is not worth worrying about (As long as you watch the speed in future).

The law that covers your misfortune is poor and out of date, many have tried to get it changed without success.
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#5
I believe it's the Max Gross Weight (the weight of the vehicle + the maximum load weight) that determines the speed limit unfortunately.

http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/advice...imits.aspx

"What is a "car derived van"?
Under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, a "car derived van" is defined as:- "A goods vehicle which is constructed or adapted as a derivative of a passenger vehicle and which has a maximum laden weight not exceeding 2 tonnes."

According to my understanding on this website, a Berlingo Enterprise will be at least 1665KG + 600KG = 2265KG. I may of course have the wrong vehicle, or the website may be wrong so worth investigating with Citroen directly.

http://www.anchorvans.co.uk/specificatio.../berlingo/


Just added the link below, it seems to be saying the MGW is under 2000KG, if it's correct then maybe a call to Citroen & then the CAB is in order:

https://info.citroen.co.uk/Assets/pdf/ne...ochure.pdf


OK, this has me intrigued, and definitely worth a bit of push back if Citroen confirm the weights.
From the DVLA web site:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...e-vehicles

"Car-derived vans are designed to weigh no more than 2 tonnes when loaded and are based on car designs (eg Ford Fiesta, Vauxhall Corsa), or the vehicle is built from a platform which has been designed to be built as a car or a van."

You can definitely have a Berlingo as a car or van...
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#6
(13-02-2017, 02:15 PM)Solent Wrote:  It's quite possible that it was registered incorrectly, my car was registered as blue when it was actually silver. It took ages to get it changed which included letters of declaration from the manufacturer, so mistakes do happen.

However, as your V5C states that it is a panel van that is what will have triggered the summons. You can try to fight it in the courts but I doubt it will be worth the cost and effort as your V5C is clear about what it was registered as. Annoying, but 3 points on a clean licence is not worth worrying about (As long as you watch the speed in future).

The law that covers your misfortune is poor and out of date, many have tried to get it changed without success.

Thanks for your reply Solent. I have applied to DVLA to get description changed but Citroen are adamant that it's not car-derived. Court next month as I am not prepared to accept a ticket for something legal in my home county. I have got this far so not giving up as I feel two different speed limits for essentially the same vehicle is a nonsense not to mention different counties prosecuting differently.
    But I take your point and if I am not successful I will be wishing I'd had accepted the 3 points and a £100 fine or the driving course. Indeed the law is poor and out of date but unfortunately that's not any grounds for my defence. Just a note to drivers of the van, Hampshire 70 mph dual carriageway, Dorset 60 mph, maybe that will help someone in future.
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#7
(13-02-2017, 04:58 PM)cancunia Wrote:  I believe it's the Max Gross Weight (the weight of the vehicle + the maximum load weight) that determines the speed limit unfortunately.

http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/advice...imits.aspx

"What is a "car derived van"?
Under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, a "car derived van" is defined as:- "A goods vehicle which is constructed or adapted as a derivative of a passenger vehicle and which has a maximum laden weight not exceeding 2 tonnes."

According to my understanding on this website, a Berlingo Enterprise will be at least 1665KG + 600KG = 2265KG. I may of course have the wrong vehicle, or the website may be wrong so worth investigating with Citroen directly.

http://www.anchorvans.co.uk/specificatio.../berlingo/


Just added the link below, it seems to be saying the MGW is under 2000KG, if it's correct then maybe a call to Citroen & then the CAB is in order:

https://info.citroen.co.uk/Assets/pdf/ne...ochure.pdf


OK, this has me intrigued, and definitely worth a bit of push back if Citroen confirm the weights.
From the DVLA web site:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...e-vehicles

"Car-derived vans are designed to weigh no more than 2 tonnes when loaded and are based on car designs (eg Ford Fiesta, Vauxhall Corsa), or the vehicle is built from a platform which has been designed to be built as a car or a van."

You can definitely have a Berlingo as a car or van...

 Thanks Cancunia, the Government guidelines you have posted are already the basis of my defence and yes my van is under 2 tonnes fully laden, I have the L1 625. Lots of counties including my own go on max weight being under 2 tonnes and are not bothered about whether the van or car came first. Citroen, however, are unmoving despite me having sent them the Government guidelines. I just hope the magistrates find the guidelines more persuasive than Citroens position.
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#8
Good luck with your case, it's clear that the Berlingo is available as a car or van. Which came first does seem to be a factor in some cases but somehow not always, I'd be tempted to ignore that aspect and concentrate on what's documented by the DVLA - a CDV is "designed to be built as a car or a van".
This may be of interest for doing some further research - post #9.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=44010

Don't know if you've done it already, but maybe worth trying to appeal to a senior officer's sense of discretion and avoid all the admin of court based on the official Citroen specs and the DVLA definitions? Maybe some precedents that you can find elsewhere online.
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#9
(13-02-2017, 06:44 PM)cancunia Wrote:  Good luck with your case, it's clear that the Berlingo is available as a car or van. Which came first does seem to be a factor in some cases but somehow not always, I'd be tempted to ignore that aspect and concentrate on what's documented by the DVLA - a CDV is  "designed to be built as a car or a van".
This may be of interest for doing some further research - post #9.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=44010

Don't know if you've done it already, but maybe worth trying to appeal to a senior officer's sense of discretion and avoid all the admin of court based on the official Citroen specs and the DVLA definitions? Maybe some precedents that you can find elsewhere online.

Tried that approach with the chief constable via my local MP, no luck. I have found nothing concrete online, only forum stories and wiki facts, which although I believe, they cannot be used in court. One forumite states that his son had a ticket for the same offence but once contacted, Kent police rescinded the ticket because of the vans gross weight. Another forumite posted he took the option of a driving course when receiving a ticket for the same offence in Norfolk. The driving school sent him home stating that he should not have been given a ticket and his course fee was refunded.
  My county of Hampshire's ticket office have stated I am within the law to drive at 70 mph on dual carriageways. So I think I am right to challenge this alleged offence and hopefully get it overturned. Finding adequate provable evidence is another matter.
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#10
Please let us know how you get on. Admire your determination.
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