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[Engine] 1.9D DW8 Timing locking information
#1
Firstly, 2003 1.9D multispace: Bought as a non-runner with electrical problems (BSI) with the saving grace that the cambelt, idler and water pump had been very recently replaced by the previous owner.

Electrical problems now, largely, overcome: Had to bypass immobiliser by replacing stop solenoid with 'simple' version:
Car now starts and, indeed , has passed MOT............. BUT......... engine really loud, rather like an old Perkins. difficult to start, and reluctant to pull !! (I know they're not the most sprightly of power units, and I'm comparing with an XUD engined van).

Wondered whether the diesel pump was 'out' by a tooth on the cambelt, so checked initially by seeing whether pump and cam sprockets were correctly aligned - both sprockets line up with locking pin holes.

Next thought was as to whether the crank and camshaft are correctly 'timed'.

First question is, were the crank and camshaft out by a tooth out on the cambelt, would be engine even run without causing damage to the valvegear/camshaft?

Next step to see whether the crank locking pin lines up, and this is where the 'fun' really starts !!
Have made up a suitable 'tool' using 8mm kunifer tubing which engages fine with the hole in the block but cannot, for the life of me, see now to view whether the tool aligns with the hole in the flywheel.

Second question is, can anyone advise the measurement from the flywheel to the face of the block where the 'locking' hole is, and also the depth of the hole in the flywheel?
My thinking is that I should be able to tell if the kunifer tool is engaging with both holes by measuring the distance it can be inserted.

Many thanks in anticipation of responses.
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#2
Yes the engine would run with up to two teeth out without damage - most of the time!

You just push the locking tool int the flywheel best to rotate the engine until it drops into the hole this then locks the engine then you check the camshaft and pump timing holes. Some people remove the starter motor for ease of inserting the flywheel locking tool.

Do you have a decent manual?
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to polar for this post:
  • kennard
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#3
Try using an L shaped piece of 6mm rod with about 3-4 inches of it to insert into the bock hole (plain rod or 6mm studding). The rod goes into the flywheel about half an inch or so and it may need a little jiggling of the crank position using the pulley nut to get it where it should be. The reason for this is that the belt/stretch tension causes a minor difference between the flywheel hole and the cam position, but this evens itself under running conditions.
I think your 'rod' is too large in diameter.
If the pump is a tooth out it will run, but badly enough not to be driveable, but will run with cam not timed correctly. There is quite a clearance between valve and piston with the belt a tooth or two away, and this clearance disappears when the belt snaps, leaving a valve open and the piston flying upwards towards it.
If you don't know the service history it would be a good idea to change the belt and time it correctly.
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to oilyrag for this post:
  • kennard
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#4
Flywheel locking - remove the starter motor which is an easy enough operation.

Locking pins - use bolts / drill bits.

There is a Haynes Manual available for download on this site and it would be worth a search for it.
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#5
(22-05-2017, 05:50 AM)polar Wrote:  Yes the engine would run with up to two teeth out without damage - most of the time!

You just push the locking tool int the flywheel best to rotate the engine until it drops into the hole this then locks the engine then you check the camshaft and pump timing holes. Some people remove the starter motor for ease of inserting the flywheel locking tool.

Do you have a decent manual?

Many thanks polar.

Interesting to know that it would run with the crank to camshaft timing out by 'up to two teeth out':
I'm assuming that this is 'out' on the camshaft sprocket as, with only 21 teeth on the crank sprocket, it would be over 34 degrees out !! (At least it's only about 8.5 degrees per tooth if it's the camshaft sprocket - 42 teeth).


Regarding the locking 'tool', can you advise if there are any additional holes in the flywheel that could be mistaken for the correct one? Trusting that the car has never had an after-market flywheel fitted as, I believe, some of these have no timing/locking hole !!

I do have a Haynes manual, but usually find that there's that little extra bit of information with which one could do.
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#6
(22-05-2017, 06:32 AM)oilyrag Wrote:  Try using an L shaped piece of 6mm rod with about 3-4 inches of it to insert into the bock hole (plain rod or 6mm studding). The rod goes into the flywheel about half an inch or so and it may need a little jiggling of the crank position using the pulley nut to get it where it should be. The reason for this is that the belt/stretch tension causes a minor difference between the flywheel hole and the cam position, but this evens itself under running conditions.
I think your 'rod' is too large in diameter.
If the pump is a tooth out it will run, but badly enough not to be driveable, but will run with cam not timed correctly. There is quite a clearance between valve and piston with the belt a tooth or two away, and this clearance disappears when the belt snaps, leaving a valve open and the piston flying upwards towards it.
If you don't know the service history it would be a good idea to change the belt and time it correctly.

Many thanks oilyrag.

Regarding the locking 'tool', really useful to have the information regarding the depth of the hole in the flywheel: It was the kindly folk at Haynes that led me to use an 8mm 'rod', but I will try 6mm as you suggest (When Haynes write their manuals, they're working on clean and shiny parts whereas I always seem to work on rather more dirty cars - an 8mm rod probably is fine if the hole are as new, but mine won't be!!).

Although I haven't any true service history with the car, I do have various receipts for work done over the years: Nothing relating to the cambelt which was said to have been recently replaced but, on inspection, the water pump, tensioner and belts are obviously almost brand new.
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#7
Additional holes ? I'm not aware of any and I doubt an aftermarket flywheel would be fitted since they don't really wear out with a 1.9D as a power unit.

You won't be able to see the flywheel locking hole without the starter removed if that is of any help to you, I believe the pin is 8mm and is a close fit in both casting and flywheel so don't be tempted to use a slacker item such as stud bar otherwise the timing won't be correct !
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to geoff for this post:
  • kennard
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#8
(22-05-2017, 09:06 AM)geoff Wrote:  Additional holes ?  I'm not aware of any and I doubt an aftermarket flywheel would be fitted since they don't really wear out with a 1.9D as a power unit.

You won't be able to see the flywheel locking hole without the starter removed if that is of any help to you, I believe the pin is 8mm and is a close fit in both casting and flywheel so don't be tempted to use a slacker item such as stud bar otherwise the timing won't be correct !

Many thanks Geoff.

Useful to know there shouldn't be any 'phantom' holes masquerading as the 'timing' hole.

Almost unbelievably and without removing the starter motor, I have managed to find a position under the car where I can access, and see, the locking hole in the block.

Whilst the hole sizing is stated as being 8mm in all literature I can find, I can confirm that it's virtually impossible to get an 8mm rod in them due to dirt/corrosion: Accordingly, as per advice received, I'm going to try a 6mm rod.
Once I have definitely located the hole in the flywheel, I will attempt using the 8mm tool again...if it will fit !! Otherwise I'll just go with the largest diameter rod I can get to fit.
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#9
Sounds a good approach - the belt teeth will only fit in the 'correct' slot on the cam which will still be in much the same place with a smaller diameter rod as with a 'full size' one, as the flywheel turns 2 revolutions for one revolution of the cam so a small discrepancy has less effect..
Maybe find the hole as you plan and as suggested use a drill bit, pointed end inwards, to twist the muck out of the hole - good news about the tensioner & belt though, as I managed to ignore that in your first post!
Lack of power - maybe engine generally tired and lacking compression (does it smoke/blow a lot with the oil filler cap off?).
Poor starting, as above but glow plugs may need renewing.
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#10
Hi I know this is not going to be helpful but i have come across one 1.9d with two holes in the flywheel and yes it confused me for a while! But that is the only one i have seen it was the same engine as you have a 1.9 naturally aspirated fitted to a ZX.
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