[Engine] Still having cooling issues, will this ever be fixed

[berlingo2002]

Hi guys

Yes i have asked for help in a past post but still on going.

I have a citroen berlingo 2002 model
1.4 engine with AC Australian delivered

Problem
The car is overheating when in traffic with temp gauge showing 3/4 hot and the only way to bring temp down is to switch on the air-conditioning which
Keeps both fans running all the time.
Even with that, temp gauge only goes down to just above half.

So what I have found.
Seems fans are coming on too late
(Gauge shows 3/4)
and not staying on long enough and fans don't seem to be strong enough

What I have done

(Replaced)
new temp sender on thermostat
New thermostat
New radiator cap
New 3 relays on fan shroud.
Cleaned all electrical connectors.
Checked all earth points.
New bottom seal on radiator
Flashed out whole cooling system.
Bleed all 3 bleed screws and jacked car up on battery side to force air out.
Flashed out heater matrix.
Had mechanic test for blown headgasket and all good.
There is no oil in cooling system
There is no water in oil.
There is no combustion gases in cooling system.

With the 3 relays.
When fans on without air-conditioning
If I pull out the top right one fans go off same goes with the bottom relay fans go off,
But if I pull out the left relays fans stay on.
I have also been told it has 2 speeds and might be the bitron?

For the life of me can't seem to find this so called bitron

If i switch off air-conditioning and drive without stopping temp comes down
So indicates to me must be fans or temp sender.

I have been told that even though I changed the temp sender with new one that the new one could also be faulty.

Once again sorry about the long msg but thought more I explain the easier it would be for people to understand.

Please help I'm at my wits end.

[polar]

You seem to have done everything but the obvious - replace the radiator, and that would be my next move. Do this then come back and let us know how you get on.

[berlingo2002]

You seem to have done everything but the obvious - replace the radiator, and that would be my next move. Do this then come back and let us know how you get on.

Hi
Thankyou for your reply,

The radiator was taken out ,flushed and cleaned. It doesn't leak so i tnought why change it. Its not clogged and if i can see straight through the fins so it not blocked.,

[geoff]

I'd have thought radiator and often suggest changing them as here in UK they are very cheap new - cheapest one is £28 delivered ( $48 aus )

ebay 371225579429 and this is from a seller in Germany so long shipping distance !

I see a radiator in Aus is $$$$ cheapest I see is $210 .... perhaps the German seller will ship to Australia ??

[berlingo2002]

I'd have thought radiator and often suggest changing them as here in UK they are very cheap new - cheapest one is £28 delivered ( $48 aus )

ebay 371225579429 and this is from a seller in Germany so long shipping distance !

I see a radiator in Aus is $$$$  cheapest I see is $210  .... perhaps the German seller will ship to Australia ??

Hi Thankyou for your quick response and ebay id for radiator

I understand the reasoning behind thinking radiator is the issue if it was all tne time but when im driving temp drops so could i ask why you think its the radiator?
Please be gentle im learning

Regards

[geoff]

When in traffic the cooling effect of the outside airflow through the engine bay isn't there like when driving on the open road.

If you put the cabin heater on to warm the interior of the car does the engine temperature go down ? I appreciate in a hot country you wouldn't want to heat the car but in UK it is often done to cool an overheating engine.

[Civvic]

You seem to have done everything but the obvious - replace the radiator, and that would be my next move. Do this then come back and let us know how you get on.

Hi
Thankyou for your reply,

The radiator was taken out ,flushed and cleaned. It doesn't leak so i tnought why change it. Its not clogged and if i can see straight through the fins so it not blocked.,

Have u tried fitting a new coolant cap.

[polar]

When you say the rad was flushed and cleaned - was it flow tested? Radiators can look fine from the outside but inside they can scale up and the only way to test is to send to a rad repair specialist for flow testing.

[geoff]

Even when a rad is flushed with industrial descaler it will never get back to full performance - I used to work with such equipment years ago.

Even a tiny amount of scale will dramatically impact thermal efficiency, industrial chillers for example ( HVAC systems ) have specially treated water which is contantly monitored to stay on top of things.

When I worked with 500 ton chillers condenser tube fouling would incur huge costs in energy to maintain thermal output / conversion.

A deposit of 0.010" would give efficiency losses of 9 % which would cost ( nearly 10 yrs ago ) £15,000
Similarly a deposit of 0.050" would give efficiency losses of 45 % which would cost ( nearly 10 yrs ago ) £75,000

Translate that backwards to a car radiator where it is likely the coolant is never replaced on schedule and you get similarly staggering costs incurred only in the case of an automobile it is is usually the engine blowing up.

Anyway as said and to cut a long story short flushing never really does a lot long term.

[oilyrag]

Hi,
Is the car actually overheating - ie boiling up .....if you are relying on what you see on the gauge might the gauge itself be reading too high? If you can borrow or buy a cheap infra red temp reader http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Thermometer-G...SwtGlZHRqc and point it at various hoses, rad top, rad bottom and so on, it will be possible to build up a picture of water flow & temp reduction by the rad. If the rad is scaled then the temp of the water coming out at the bottom hose will be higher than anticipated.
You can also check water temp at the thermostat housing & top hose and compare with the gauge - which should read at about half way when the stat opens at 80 degrees or so ( see markings on thermostat for precise opening temp). If the stat is opening at the correct temp, but the gauge is high then the gauge itself is over-reading.
If not, agree with previous advice re replacing the rad itself. Has your car always run with anti-freeze/ corrosion inhibitor? If run with plain water from a hard water area it will have scale.