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Balls for joints...
#1
Hiya All...

   I am struggling to get to the bottom of why the steering has a strange 'wander'.. All seems straight but I have to tilt the steering wheel over to the right to get the van to drive straight, the N/S front tyre is wearing on the outside but the tracking is fine.

  I noticed on ebay, while just flicking around, like you do, that there is different lower ball joints for power steering and non power steering so I'm wondering if  have inadvertently fitted a lower ball joint for non power steering at some stage by mistake..

   Does anyone have any idea what the difference between the ball joints would be ??
Blue 1.9D van 2005 DW8B non turbo..
Silver 1.9D Mutispace desire 2004 DW8B non Turbo..
White 1.9D Van 2005 DW8B non turbo..
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#2
I stand to be corrected on this but I think that the only difference between the ball joint for power steering / non power steering is the diameter of the ball joint pin, one is 16mm the other 18mm.

If you had fitted a 16mm in place of the 18mm the pinch clamp wouldn't tighten up on it so it would be loose and dangerous.

.
My vehicle .... 2006 (m59) Berlingo Multispace Desire - 1.6 HDI 92 
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#3
(09-11-2017, 11:59 PM)ajcommercial Wrote:  Hiya All...

   I am struggling to get to the bottom of why the steering has a strange 'wander'.. All seems straight but I have to tilt the steering wheel over to the right to get the van to drive straight, the N/S front tyre is wearing on the outside but the tracking is fine.

  I noticed on ebay, while just flicking around, like you do, that there is different lower ball joints for power steering and non power steering so I'm wondering if  have inadvertently fitted a lower ball joint for non power steering at some stage by mistake..

   Does anyone have any idea what the difference between the ball joints would be ??

Another possibility is often overlooked. 

While using a tracking tool may give you correct tracking readings in the 'straight ahead' position - which is all that most garages and many owners do - the tracking may still be out and pull to one side or the other when driving.

This is because the ackerman principle, which many manufacturers use today still, even in modified form, requires that the track rod ends are exactly the same length side to side. It is all too easy to set the tracking up while forgetting this. The measurement across the axle from one wheel to the other might indicate that the correct toe out or toe in has been achieved, but if the track rod ends are of unequal length then the steering will pull sideways and uneven tyre wear will be the result.

So your symptoms might have nothing to do with ball joints. Worth getting the tracking set up on, say, a Hunter machine (as long as the operator knows how to use it properly!). Or you can do it yourself with a bit of care and knowhow.

Gravity
[-] The following 2 users say Thank You to Gravity for this post:
  • CourierJim, Silverberlingo
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#4
It would look as if I have found the problem with the steering on my van... There is a difference between power steer and non power steer ball joints.. They can both be 18mm but non power steer the ball joint plate is about an inch longer. I have bought one of each for me to do a comparison..

 I'm going to compare what is on my van tomorrow, I'll do an update after...
Blue 1.9D van 2005 DW8B non turbo..
Silver 1.9D Mutispace desire 2004 DW8B non Turbo..
White 1.9D Van 2005 DW8B non turbo..
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to ajcommercial for this post:
  • Civvic
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#5
(11-11-2017, 05:00 PM)ajcommercial Wrote:  It would look as if I have found the problem with the steering on my van... There is a difference between power steer and non power steer ball joints.. They can both be 18mm but non power steer the ball joint plate is about an inch longer. I have bought one of each for me to do a comparison..

 I'm going to compare what is on my van tomorrow, I'll do an update after...

Heavy duty arms come already fitted with balljoints and really perform much better than the welded non heavy duty type. Unfortunately, I found out after many years of using the welded type on my 1.9d after being a bit curious.
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#6
(11-11-2017, 09:29 PM)Civvic Wrote:  Heavy duty arms come already fitted with balljoints and really perform much better than the welded non heavy duty type. Unfortunately, I found out after many years of using the welded type on my 1.9d after being a bit curious.

I'm curious on this topic,
the wishbones listed for my vehicle are the cast steel type that have the ball joint as part of the arm, with no possibility of fitting just a replacement ball joint as it is moulded into the arm, to replace the ball joint you have to replace the full wishbone.

I've often wondered what the difference could be between the type on my vehicle and the pressed steel version that the ball joint is replaceable on?

From what I have read on the forum there is no size difference,so I wonder if the two types are really interchangeable?  

.
My vehicle .... 2006 (m59) Berlingo Multispace Desire - 1.6 HDI 92 
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#7
Hiya,
I'm curious on this topic,
the wishbones listed for my vehicle are the cast steel type that have the ball joint as part of the arm, with no possibility of fitting just a replacement ball joint as it is moulded into the arm, to replace the ball joint you have to replace the full wishbone.

I've often wondered what the difference could be between the type on my vehicle and the pressed steel version that the ball joint is replaceable on?

From what I have read on the forum there is no size difference,so I wonder if the two types are really interchangeable?  



 I have both, a van with pressed steel wishbones and a Multi with cast wishbones... What worries me is the cast wishbones can't be fixed, bushes and ball joint is moulded, I have fitted one First line wishbone ( N/S ) and one TRW ( TRW ) but I don't do a great deal of miles in this as it is mainly for Camping / spare vehicle.. The Van has the pressed steel wishbones and I have done 100k miles in it, I have found the only decent parts to fit are genuine or TRW.. all others have a short life.. Also keep a spare set with replacement 'P' ( rear ) bushes on as these are what wear the soonest, Ball joints can be replaced and again the ones that last longest are TRW, first line are OK, genuine are TRW so buy Genuine if you want but it will be TRW in the bag.. Cheap are a waste of time  / effort.. If you are going to change rear 'P' bush the best way is to grind it off with an angle grinder and tap the new one on with a deep socket ( 14mm I think ) and again don't bother with cheap ones, genuine are best.. I don't know who supplies genuine but I have tried several different types and they don't last more than a few thousand miles next to genuine that are almost fit and forget..
The other wishbone bushes never need changing....
  Genuine wishbones are thicker metal than non genuine but all do the job.. 

 My advice is make sure the ball joint is the correct one... There are different sizes.. Try adding your Chassis number to this web site, it will get you the right part numbers to search for

https://www.catcar.info/citroen/?lang=en&l=
Blue 1.9D van 2005 DW8B non turbo..
Silver 1.9D Mutispace desire 2004 DW8B non Turbo..
White 1.9D Van 2005 DW8B non turbo..
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#8
BALLS !!

 The ball joints are both the same...

  I will keep on thinking about what the cause might be...
Blue 1.9D van 2005 DW8B non turbo..
Silver 1.9D Mutispace desire 2004 DW8B non Turbo..
White 1.9D Van 2005 DW8B non turbo..
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#9
It's worth swapping the front wheels from side to side , so long as they are not directional tyres.
This often cures a pulling car for a while.
The only permanent cure is two new tyres of matching quality.
There are many other causes for this fault, but this method may help you out.
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#10
My front tyres were getting low when I first bought the car and the nearside was like yours worn on the outside. I had two new fronts fitted and asked about tracking and the fitter said it didn't look like it needed doing so I mentioned the old tyre being worn on the outside and he said it was likely due to roundabouts. I had it checked and he was right the readout was spot on and the new tyres have been on a couple of years with not much mileage but are not showing any unusual wear pattern. If your steering is off centre it has probably been tracked by someone who didn't secure the wheel in the straight ahead position while they did the job.
So where does this bit go then ?
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