Legal advice re Citroen work

[Cindycs]

Advice please!

Re: Berlingo 2012 XTR circa 45k on clock, always fill up from empty with good fuel.

I've had ongoing problems with my DPF as was not regenerating when I was doing the requisite driving with revs up over 2000 rpm about 50mph for at least 15 mins. 

This has been going on for over a year. I have had a solvent clean, a forced re-gen, and then come spring time last year it just seemed to sort itself out for the whole summer. Then around October/Nov (when getting chilly again - is this something?), it started again with the warning light "risk of filter clogging". Thought I'd be able to sort it out with a good run to get the temp up, but nothing seemed to work. Took it to Citroen who ran the diagnostic test and concluded (to no-one's surprise) that I had a DPF problem. Was advised that my filter had come to the end of its life (at 45k?) and I needed a new one. Thought I would stick with Citroen as they are supposed to have all the newest software etc so would know about any deeper issues the car had. Nothing came up, so before Christmas I had the filter changed. I couldn't afford the new Citroen one which was over a grand, so opted for the re-conditioned one at around £550. 

4 weeks later, 1000 more miles on the clock, with bigger runs as well as city driving, the warning light came on again. I immediately took it for a good run to clear it, but the problem persisted. A few days later Citroen had it in again and said they were very confused because the computer said it had regenerated, despite the warning light coming back on every time I drove it. So they had it in again today and have just called to say that they've run all the tests and injectors etc are fine. But there is a new software that has JUST come out which will help with the regeneration. Like, this software came out last week, he said. 

I am dubious. I feel let down by Citroen that, on their advice, I had my Citroen DPF changed to a re-con one. And miraculously now there's software that has just been released that should sort out my problem. Are they telling me the truth? Did they just miss it and go to default answer of "get a new filter"?  Is this worth pursuing and does anybody else have anything they can add/advise? 

Any suggestions/advice most appreciated. 
Thanks,

Cindy

[Gravity]

Lots of variables here.
For instance, was the 'recon' dpf unit bought from the Citroen dealer? If so, you have a clear path for redress. It obviously isn't doing its job - unless something else is wrong.

I'm guessing it wasn't though. To 'recon' a dpf is a skilled exercise. There are plenty of recon merchants who'll do anything from hosing out the dpf, to steam cleaning, to pressure washing with plenty of degreaser or washup liquid - many cowboys, in fact.

So if your dpf was a 'recon' it might be in excellent condition or you might have bought a dud. You could take it back to the supplier, state that it's covered just 1k miles, and complain to them. That could be a hiding to nothing, depending on how honest they are. If they are reputable they may be able to test your dpf, and  confirm whether it really is faulty. If it is not, then again you have ammunition to take to the Citroen dealer.

Regardless of all that, a dpf failing on the 1.6hdi motor at only 45k miles is very unusual. A replacement failing at 1k miles is crazy. Something else is causing your problem, and Citroen should know enough - diagnostic equipment notwithstanding - to get to the root cause.
Diagnostic gear is like a spanner - it's only as good as the guy using it.

Personally I'd complain loudly and insistently, and I would make like a terrier - I wouldn't let go until I was satisfied. Certainly try their new revolutionary regeneration software update - you have nothing to lose, but there are other avenues you could use if Citroen try to give you the brush off.

Apologies for the long post.

Gravity

[dumdum]

It’s a sticky one as you assumed as many people do that Citroen and main dealers are generally better equipped to fix faults when in reality there are one or two master technicians who have access to the info your thinking of and several chimps for want of a better description who are parts fitters, I suspect you’ve been seen by one of these and the last visit was a master tech as the service bulletins are more likely to be read and understood by these guys only sadly

Personally I think you have another issue with the car, that’s a freak occurrence and something is just outside operating tolerance, the new firmware update may purely be an update to increase this tolerance, that simple, it’s unfortunate for you but I think if you stick to your guns and go for the jugular everytime you’d have a very good chance of getting money back if it went to court... but you’d need some very clued up people on your side that would likely cost more than you’ve spent anyway, and as they can’t test the original fault how it was there no way of proving it was the same or a new one that’s freshly occurred

I’ve had a differential pressure sensor cause this kind of issue by reading slightly wrong, if you looked at it it read ok and went up and down, but the values were slightly off, this would drift just outside tolerances and put the light on, swapped the sensor and job was sorted, unfortunately they can be a complete pig to sort and cost a lot of money, and you have to start somewhere, so sometimes it is literally a guess, even dealers don’t have a magic tool that says change this part and the fault will be fixed sadly!

[Tree]

We had a similar problem with our C4GP - driving to Eurodisney a few years back the car started to cough and splutter. Came up on the dash with the warning anti pollution system faulty or something to that matter.

Turned out to be the fuel pressure sensor had failed, nothing to do with the DPF

[Cindycs]

Lots of variables here.
For instance, was the 'recon' dpf unit bought from the Citroen dealer? If so, you have a clear path for redress. It obviously isn't doing its job - unless something else is wrong.

I'm guessing it wasn't though. To 'recon' a dpf is a skilled exercise. There are plenty of recon merchants who'll do anything from hosing out the dpf, to steam cleaning, to pressure washing with plenty of degreaser or washup liquid - many cowboys, in fact.

So if your dpf was a 'recon' it might be in excellent condition or you might have bought a dud. You could take it back to the supplier, state that it's covered just 1k miles, and complain to them. That could be a hiding to nothing, depending on how honest they are. If they are reputable they may be able to test your dpf, and  confirm whether it really is faulty. If it is not, then again you have ammunition to take to the Citroen dealer.

Regardless of all that, a dpf failing on the 1.6hdi motor at only 45k miles is very unusual. A replacement failing at 1k miles is crazy. Something else is causing your problem, and Citroen should know enough - diagnostic equipment notwithstanding - to get to the root cause.
Diagnostic gear is like a spanner - it's only as good as the guy using it.

Personally I'd complain loudly and insistently, and I would make like a terrier - I wouldn't let go until I was satisfied. Certainly try their new revolutionary regeneration software update - you have nothing to lose, but there are other avenues you could use if Citroen try to give you the brush off.

Apologies for the long post.

Gravity

Hi Gravity,

Thanks for your response. So yes, the recon unit was bought from and fitted by a Citroen dealer. I just went to collect my vehicle. They have updated the engine's ECU software (which now contains this new regen ability). They have said that they are keeping the case open and want me to drive it for the next couple of weeks to see if it has fixed the problem. He was quite sure it was a software issue, which should now be fixed with this new update. There was no charge for this work. 

I asked for the name of this new software update (said there was none) and asked him if I spoke to Citroen UK they would tell me the same story (that it has only just been released). He said yes.  However, DPF's have been causing this kind of problem for some time now, I believe, so am a little dubious that the software has gone from nothing to being able to make the DPF regenerate more often in one go. I am not fully satisfied that they didn't perform all the necessary checks in the first place when they were advising me to replace my DPF. However, now I am just told that my old DPF unit was so clogged that it HAD to be replaced. 

Not really sure what to do now except drive it and see if it's been fixed and accept that maybe it was bad timing for me and my particular problem occurring before the new update was released. Although part of me is frustrated that Citroen didn't pick up the software issue anyhow!

Anyway thanks for your time.
Cindy

[Gravity]

.... They have said that they are keeping the case open and want me to drive it for the next couple of weeks to see if it has fixed the problem. He was quite sure it was a software issue, which should now be fixed with this new update. There was no charge for this work. 

... Not really sure what to do now except drive it and see if it's been fixed

Cindy

It looks to me as though your Citroen dealer is trying to be reasonable. Be sure to monitor and take the car back, as I am certain you will, in a couple of weeks. This will help to keep the issue open ended, in case the dpf glitch shows up later.

Whether or not the updated software is a new release is really secondary to your problem, isn't it? Vehicle software is updated by the manufacturers on a regular basis, and any vehicles going into a dealer for servicing will get the updated software, often without the owner even knowing.

On the dpf unit - was the recon unit you bought stated as an exchange unit? If not, then the old unit is still your property, and as you've seen, it has a value. Wonder what their response would be if you asked for it back?

Hope it goes well for you.

Gravity