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[Warning Light] Engine Fault Light Error Code P1434
#1
Hi folks,

I posted here a number of weeks ago regarding my engine fault light coming on this was traced to low DPF fluid level and topped up and reset all was good for 10K miles. However now i have the light and warning message coming back on and went to a dpf specialist (allegedly) to get sorted out. The fault code P1434 was retrieved along with a code pointing to DPF worn zero miles to replacement which he says he has never seen?????

The P1434 code seems to point according to his delphi system to faulty additive pump and/or CAN com fault. He advised to go with a new pump as they are common. So i ordered one direct from citroen and he fitted it the next day but now the thing seems to not be recognised by the car. It reads the level of fluid in the tank but will not allow him to initiate the pump and carry out a forced regeneration. Now he tells me to take it to citroen as they are best equipped to deal with these kinds of errors and im swaying towards going to them because im not throwing money about to replace things here and there. Its obvious here that the pump probably was not the problem and has been replaced for no reason and points more to words an electrical and/or communication issue.

Has anyone seen this issue before and can give advice on it as im probably going to have to go to citroen now to get it resolved but they are tuesday before they can even get me on a diagnostics appointment.

My usual garage does not have the update to their diagnostics unit as it is away getting the firmware etc updated so it can hopefully find these codes but they do have access to the codes and their remedy procedures. The remedy for this code is liquid level/tank pump/injector or again CAN com fault so we are looking at the CAN fault as the probable cause. They do not however have experience with citroens and their additive systems so are not confident in solving my issues and have also recommended i go to citroen now too.

Also the DPF worn code seems weird as the system read particulate levels in the DPF as 18g but unsure if it is maybe now filled with ash from the regenerations which is causing this issue???
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#2
Hello.

This fault indicates either that the pump is faulty (but you have tried another, new one, and no go) or that the cabling in the wire loom from the pump to the ecu/bsi has either a short-circuit or an open circuit (live cable touching mass, or a broken cable). - This can easily happen because these cables run near the exhaust line, and improper reassembly/refitting can lead to a cable melting, and/or the plugs getting corroded contacts that fail to pass the electrical signals, or the cable binders sometimes are too tight and can break brittle cables in well hidden places.

As to the dpf worn zero miles fault code, it is, as I told you before, an internal counter that counts the number of kms/regeneration times your dpf has done, and since you have passed this number of kms/regenerations, it is now on warning mode. To try to remove this warning, you can fool the system by telling it you have fitted a brand new dpf without actually doing so. Then the fault code will only appear again if the dpf is actually getting plugged, and harming the exhaust system with excessive pressure, measured by the pressure probes in the exhaust line.
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to Luis Rosa for this post:
  • kingy1912
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#3
(21-06-2018, 05:31 AM)Luis Rosa Wrote:  Hello.

This fault indicates either that the pump is faulty (but you have tried another, new one, and no go) or that the cabling in the wire loom from the pump to the ecu/bsi has either a short-circuit or an open circuit (live cable touching mass, or a broken cable). - This can easily happen because these cables run near the exhaust line, and improper reassembly/refitting can lead to a cable melting, and/or the plugs getting corroded contacts that fail to pass the electrical signals, or the cable binders sometimes are too tight and can break brittle cables in well hidden places.

As to the dpf worn zero miles fault code, it is, as I told you before, an internal counter that counts the number of kms/regeneration times your dpf has done, and since you have passed this number of kms/regenerations, it is now on warning mode. To try to remove this warning, you can fool the system by telling it you have fitted a brand new dpf without actually doing so. Then the fault code will only appear again if the dpf is actually getting plugged, and harming the exhaust system with excessive pressure, measured by the pressure probes in the exhaust line.

Thanks for your reply,

Currently it is with citroen as the guy who was changing the pump could not do anything else with it he said. It is currently waiting to be diagnosed but they have informed me it could be the end of next week before it is fixed depending on the results of the diagnosis. The dealerships i have spoke to have not heard of this DPF worn fault so i do not know if this warning is specific to how certain systems describe the code. 

I did notice that the cables underneath are flimsy and exposed which seems really daft when you consider what they have to go through under there.

I take it this DPF worn warning is just an indicator then and not an actual sign that the DPF is knackered??? The kind of driving i do i would not expect a DPF to just go (mostly A road and motorway driving) unless it was actually faulty. How would citroen respond to this warning, would they recommend a new DPF or would they try fooling the system first?? I do not want to be told to fit a new DPF if one is not required which i believe to be the case as car drives fine and is not in limp mode. Additionally with the DPF only reading 18g of particulate in it i would assume it probably regenerated not to long before the warning came on and as a result was/is still working fine.
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#4
The DPF is a very resistant filter (it resists temperatures of 600°C and above), that filters the exhaust fumes and has the capacity to retain the soot generated by the engine in normal working conditions. Every now and then, when it is full of soot, and starts to get clogged, the motor ecu will inject extra diesel so that a controlled combustion starts inside the DPF filter, burning away the soot - a fairly good explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMKpo74P6SE
the problem is that the burning of the soot always leaves residue (ash - think of a fireplace or your barbecue) that are not burnable anymore, and that stay inside the DPF filter, gradually clogging it further and further with every regeneration, until this clogging is permanent, and the dpf has to be replaced. So you can "knacker" a dpf filter just by driving normally. The more you drive, the more regenerations you make, the faster you permanently clog the dpf. This "counting" system installed by the Engineers at PSA is based on previous experimentation. Their experiments with the dpfs resulted in the information that a DPF can resist on average a x number of regeneration cycles, and after that it has to be replaced. So they implement those numbers on the ECU for safe-keeping. If the dpf is replaced when this system warns, the car´s performance will never be affected, and you will never risk damaging your motor because of this problem. Of course the x that they found is a statistical number, and it is normally, for safe-keeping purposes, further reduced for good measure. So it does not actually mean that your DPF is completely clogged, it means that it is getting there. Citroen would never (I guess) counter the engineers at PSA, so they would never (again a guess) recommend that you would fool the system by telling the car´s ECU you have fitted a new DPF without actually doing so...
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#5
(22-06-2018, 05:11 AM)Luis Rosa Wrote:  The DPF is a very resistant filter (it resists temperatures of 600°C and above), that filters the exhaust fumes and has the capacity to retain the soot generated by the engine in normal working conditions. Every now and then, when it is full of soot, and starts to get clogged, the motor ecu will inject extra diesel so that a controlled combustion starts inside the DPF filter, burning away the soot - a fairly good explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMKpo74P6SE
the problem is that the burning of the soot always leaves residue (ash - think of a fireplace or your barbecue) that are not burnable anymore, and that stay inside the DPF filter, gradually clogging it further and further with every regeneration, until this clogging is permanent, and the dpf has to be replaced. So you can "knacker" a dpf filter just by driving normally. The more you drive, the more regenerations you make, the faster you permanently clog the dpf. This "counting" system installed by the Engineers at PSA is based on previous experimentation. Their experiments with the dpfs resulted in the information that a DPF can resist on average a x number of regeneration cycles, and after that it has to be replaced. So they implement those numbers on the ECU for safe-keeping. If the dpf is replaced when this system warns, the car´s performance will never be affected, and you will never risk damaging your motor because of this problem. Of course the x that they found is a statistical number, and it is normally, for safe-keeping purposes, further reduced for good measure. So it does not actually mean that your DPF is completely clogged, it means that it is getting there. Citroen would never (I guess) counter the engineers at PSA, so they would never (again a guess) recommend that you would fool the system by telling the car´s ECU you have fitted a new DPF without actually doing so...

Hi there,

Thanks again for your info you have been very helpful. Donthis mean that if they believe the filter not to be damaged they would try to clean them out first? I know most manufacturers dealerships now have the equipment to clean the filters out but only as a last ditch attempt before recommending a replacement?

Being a taxi I would be very much against replacing a filter I believe is not actually broken or damaged if cleaning is an option. Especially considering my mileage will always be high for the kind of taxi work
I do. As a result I would be putting a filter on every 18 months or so over a 6 year period and very much an unsustainable exercise.

My last berlingo which I still have is a 2010 model which does not have a DPF but instead has a catalyser on it. So I have never had to deal with this issue in my previous cars and this one has done 310K without any engine or emissions issues. I’ll be honest other than serviceable parts it’s only had a power steering pump about 5K who and is on its second alternator. One of the main reason Na I decided to purchase another one.

Also can the DPF’s on these be cleaned in situ?? I notice the DPF on these (even though the system uses fluid to initiate regeneration at lower temperatures) is right below the manifold and the turbo so was wondering if this affects them cleaning it on the car?


Once again thanks for your help
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#6
(22-06-2018, 06:50 AM)kingy1912 Wrote:  
(22-06-2018, 05:11 AM)Luis Rosa Wrote:  The DPF is a very resistant filter (it resists temperatures of 600°C and above), that filters the exhaust fumes and has the capacity to retain the soot generated by the engine in normal working conditions. Every now and then, when it is full of soot, and starts to get clogged, the motor ecu will inject extra diesel so that a controlled combustion starts inside the DPF filter, burning away the soot - a fairly good explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMKpo74P6SE
the problem is that the burning of the soot always leaves residue (ash - think of a fireplace or your barbecue) that are not burnable anymore, and that stay inside the DPF filter, gradually clogging it further and further with every regeneration, until this clogging is permanent, and the dpf has to be replaced. So you can "knacker" a dpf filter just by driving normally. The more you drive, the more regenerations you make, the faster you permanently clog the dpf. This "counting" system installed by the Engineers at PSA is based on previous experimentation. Their experiments with the dpfs resulted in the information that a DPF can resist on average a x number of regeneration cycles, and after that it has to be replaced. So they implement those numbers on the ECU for safe-keeping. If the dpf is replaced when this system warns, the car´s performance will never be affected, and you will never risk damaging your motor because of this problem. Of course the x that they found is a statistical number, and it is normally, for safe-keeping purposes, further reduced for good measure. So it does not actually mean that your DPF is completely clogged, it means that it is getting there. Citroen would never (I guess) counter the engineers at PSA, so they would never (again a guess) recommend that you would fool the system by telling the car´s ECU you have fitted a new DPF without actually doing so...

Hi there,

Thanks again for your info you have been very helpful. Donthis mean that if they believe the filter not to be damaged they would try to clean them out first? I know most manufacturers dealerships now have the equipment to clean the filters out but only as a last ditch attempt before recommending a replacement?

Being a taxi I would be very much against replacing a filter I believe is not actually broken or damaged if cleaning is an option. Especially considering my mileage will always be high for the kind of taxi work
I do. As a result I would be putting a filter on every 18 months or so over a 6 year period and very much an unsustainable exercise.

My last berlingo which I still have is a 2010 model which does not have a DPF but instead has a catalyser on it. So I have never had to deal with this issue in my previous cars and this one has done 310K without any engine or emissions issues. I’ll be honest other than serviceable parts it’s only had a power steering pump about 5K who and is on its second alternator. One of the main reason Na I decided to purchase another one.

Also can the DPF’s on these be cleaned in situ?? I notice the DPF on these (even though the system uses fluid to initiate regeneration at lower temperatures) is right below the manifold and the turbo so was wondering if this affects them cleaning it on the car?


Once again thanks for your help

Maybe you should integrate this information into your mind: these filters are only clenanable/regenerable to a certain extent...from a certain point on, they are irreversibly plugged and need to be replaced. This is known about this technology, it is a fact. - In your case, I guess you still do not have any of the physical problems from a plugged filter, only some eletronic warnings, so I think you should not be worried about this yet.

There are quite some number of materials used as a DPF filter. These cars use either Cordierite or Silica-carbide filters. I know that in big transport trucks the DPF filters are "cleanable" by means of physical pressure (compressed air/vacuum) a certain limited number of times ( they are also built tougher, with more resistant materials), but from what I know, the Cordierite and the Silica-carbide filters are not so easy to clean back from ash plugging (although many companies offer the dpf pressure cleaning as a service, I imagine this will be a short-lasting fix), as the materials are sensitive and this pressure cleaning process is likely to break the core of the filter, rendering it useless.
I don´t know Citroen´s policy about this, as I rarely go to an official dealership (and my car is a second-hand Peugeot partner). You will have to learn it yourself. I have also heard about the in situ cleaning, but I would guess it is even worse that the compressed air/vacuum cleaning - still i do not know, never had to do it. I just reset my ECU telling it I had a new filter using Lexia, and that was it.

FYI, Your Berlingo has a catalyst and a dpf filter. The catalyst is in the same "pan" just above the DFP, nearer to the turbo outlet. The dpf sits below it.
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#7
Hi,

Thanks once again for your help and advice on this. Turns out it was a simple problem in the end and took 45 min to fix at citroen. The DPF expert either told me a lot of bollocks or he didn’t know that his delphi equipment could not code the pump unit. He swear it will code 2014 models and back the way and just assumed it would do the same on my model.

Citroen plugged it in to the computer and programmed the pump unit reset all the counters took it for a drive to heat up and see if it did it’s own regen. It did not regen but they believed that to be because the particulate levels were too low and based on the info they have a forced regen was not required. I have had it out and been working on it since 1500 today covering about 150 miles and it is driving perfect. Fingers crossed it is all good.

They did say however that under stop start conditions they would recommend a DPF to be changed when the counter runs down which is approximately 90-100 miles under stop start conditions if not before. With my kind of driving they believe it should
Last a lot longer. It seems poor though that they hid this information from buyers especially commercial purchasers considering they will turn the mileage over.
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#8
Good info here from Louis, we see the dpf full error very regularly and on a well used Berlingo , courier , taxi, this tends to happen at around 110/130k miles.
This is another example of lack of knowledge from the dealers as they simply don’t see the older cars like us specialists do.
We have replaced plenty of additive tanks on Berlingo, they seem to fail quite often, in fact we had another in today on a 14 plate van.
You can buy a refurbed filter from Citroen I believe on an exchange basis. This will probably be the best way forward.
As Louis says, you can just tell the car it has had a new one to get a bit more life from it.
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to Lighty for this post:
  • kingy1912
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#9
(22-06-2018, 08:54 PM)Lighty Wrote:  Good info here from Louis, we see the dpf full error very regularly and on a well used Berlingo , courier , taxi, this tends to happen at around 110/130k miles.
This is another example of lack of knowledge from the dealers as they simply don’t see the older cars like us specialists do.
We have replaced plenty of additive tanks on Berlingo, they seem to fail quite often, in fact we had another in today on a 14 plate van.
You can buy a refurbed filter from Citroen I believe on an exchange basis. This will probably be the best way forward.
As Louis says, you can just tell the car it has had a new one to get a bit more life from it.

Hi Lighty,

I have seen another couple of drivers with DPF issues on 16 plate berlingos but non have done as much
Mileage as myself. These issues seem to follow the route of blockage from stop start work but as of yet I have never had any warnings of blockage of the filter the only warning I have had so far was the DPF worn but as mentioned before citroen don’t seem to be concerned about it as it seems more like a guide than anything else. If I get more specific warnings regarding it then it will be likely time to look at changing it.

Just out of curiosity are you able to programme the tanks in 16 plate berlingos onwards??? As the guy I used who was a specialist could not get it to accept the programming from the Delphi diagnostic he was using. Reason I ask is so that I don’t have to take it to citroen to get done every time as I’m expecting to keep this car till about 400K it is already pushing 140k. 

Also it is always serviced with citroen kit and 0w30 total oil as comes recommended. 

Thanks
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