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Poor Brakes - 2006 Partner 1.6HDI Combi
#1
Hi

I have a 2006 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi Combi, which was only meant to be a cheap stopgap and eight months later is still here given how useful it’s proven to be.

The brakes on it have never been all that and so I replaced the front discs and pads a few months ago (Brembo rather than the cheapest ECP stock), which seemed to improve things a little but not to the point you’d start to think you have excellent brakes under you.

What I have recently noticed is that when braking hard at higher speeds, you can feel the back end of the car pull down. Is this a characteristic of the rear beam set up or a sign that the brakes on the back are doing more of the work than they should be?

You also hear a hum that gets louder and louder when braking as above. Never any noise at any other time / from cold etc.

I’ve had a good look at the rear beam, and unlike the pics I’ve seen of the vans etc, there doesn’t already to be a load compensator valve either, as that might have been one of my first ports of call usually.

Any suggestions on what it’s most likely to be gratefully received.

Just to add as poor as the brakes are, it always stops in a straight line, no pulling to one side etc.

TIA
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#2
Hi - chances are you have an ABS model if you have no compensator. In that case the ABS can adjust to compensate for a week brake - braking efficiency is down but you stop in a straight line (just had this with a weepy cylinder on left rear that was masked by the ABS on ours). If you pull the drums you may find the answer in there.

Personally I find the brakes on our Berlingo not that exciting after driving something like the wife's Mini (or even our Renault Master) but it does stop but never with a sense of awe inspiring confidence (and just got through the MoT so the tester must have thought it good enough).

p.s. - our Berlingo was also a stopgap, still here after two years, maybe sell it this year but it's just so damned useful
                                                                                                                                                     
Our cars  2008 1.6  92 Berlingo (His) RIP 2019
              2008 1.6  110 Mini (Hers)
              2008 1.4  70 207 (Sprogs) RIP 2019
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to GraemeT for this post:
  • ron
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#3
Many thanks for the reply, Graeme. Smile

I don't feel any pulsing through the pedal etc under hard braking, and ABS usually does that when it's activated?

Debating at the mo do I spend the money on this as it's well overdue a cambelt / water pump, the bottom engine mount leaves a lot to be desired in stop start traffic, rear wheels are starting to tip in at the top plus whatever the braking issue is, and so it's unlikely to be an insignificant amount all in (even at discounted mates rates, that lot isn't going to be cheap) or do I cut my losses and get something else for my 'do it all daily'. Undecided

Another thing I wouldn't mind is some kind of barrier I could put up behind the front seats for those occasions when it's loaded up to the roof then take out again once it's been emptied. A van bulkhead that isn't, as it were. Not sure a sheet of ply slotted between the front and folded back seats is that ideal really. Big Grin

Everything else about it is good (bar the central locking) and it's tidy for year and miles.
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#4
Hi - look under the bonnet for the abs pump - shiny aluminium block with four brake pipes coming out of it - down the back of the engine under the battery tray/air filter intake pipes as I recall.

Our rear wheels look wonky depending where it's parked at the time - so did the 206 and the 207 so stopped worrying about that.

CamBelt is not too involved - 8 valves so even I managed it, you just need a small handed, trained monkey to get the 8mm bolts out for the cover (and a frankentool to get the top engine mount bolts out).

Guy we bought it from used it for runs to the tip as he was renovating a house - he just used a sheet of ply like you describe. Seemed to work but he did leave several kilos of plaster dust around the interior.

I keep thinking of selling ours in favour of something a little newer/more comfortable but always stop as I do believe it is maybe 'better the devil you know' (then I see yet another X-Type Jag estate of the same age, less mileage and the same value -  Dodgy hmmmmm.)
                                                                                                                                                     
Our cars  2008 1.6  92 Berlingo (His) RIP 2019
              2008 1.6  110 Mini (Hers)
              2008 1.4  70 207 (Sprogs) RIP 2019
Reply
#5
(25-05-2019, 05:02 PM)SteveC123 Wrote:  Hi

I have a 2006 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi Combi, which was only meant to be a cheap stopgap and eight months later is still here given how useful it’s proven to be.

The brakes on it have never been all that and so I replaced the front discs and pads a few months ago (Brembo rather than the cheapest ECP stock), which seemed to improve things a little but not to the point you’d start to think you have excellent brakes under you.

What I have recently noticed is that when braking hard at higher speeds, you can feel the back end of the car pull down. Is this a characteristic of the rear beam set up or a sign that the brakes on the back are doing more of the work than they should be?

You also hear a hum that gets louder and louder when braking as above. Never any noise at any other time / from cold etc.

I’ve had a good look at the rear beam, and unlike the pics I’ve seen of the vans etc, there doesn’t already to be a load compensator valve either, as that might have been one of my first ports of call usually.

Any suggestions on what it’s most likely to be gratefully received.

Just to add as poor as the brakes are, it always stops in a straight line, no pulling to one side etc.

TIA
Just a thought Steve , if the back end is drooping could it effect the brake compensation valve enough to make the rear brakes overwork ?  Are your rear tyres wearing more on the outside shoulder ? You can check the ride height , you should be able to find what it should be from the interwebs or a good workshop manual . My brakes aren't that great but im used to them , the only thing is that when I drive my fathers Renault Kangoo it nearly throws me through the window when I brake until I get used to it ! . Perhaps you could get a garage to check it on a rolling road as they do for the MOT , they'll soon tell you if anything's wrong . Shouldn't cost too much for peace of mind .
Reply
#6
(26-05-2019, 09:49 AM)GraemeT Wrote:  Hi - look under the bonnet for the abs pump - shiny aluminium block with four brake pipes coming out of it - down the back of the engine under the battery tray/air filter intake pipes as I recall.

Our rear wheels look wonky depending where it's parked at the time - so did the 206 and the 207 so stopped worrying about that.

CamBelt is not too involved - 8 valves so even I managed it, you just need a small handed, trained monkey to get the 8mm bolts out for the cover (and a frankentool to get the top engine mount bolts out).

Guy we bought it from used it for runs to the tip as he was renovating a house - he just used a sheet of ply like you describe. Seemed to work but he did leave several kilos of plaster dust around the interior.

I keep thinking of selling ours in favour of something a little newer/more comfortable but always stop as I do believe it is maybe 'better the devil you know' (then I see yet another X-Type Jag estate of the same age, less mileage and the same value -  Dodgy hmmmmm.)

Yes, it's definitely got ABS... as I say, I've only ever known ABS kick in when a wheel locks up under hard braking, and when it does you can feel lots of rapid pulsing through the pedal when the pump is doing its thing.

Rear wheels / beam wise, the mechanic had a look last time it was up on the ramp and said that it'll need one in the near future due to the usual.  Aside from that, I've noticed the wheels definitely tip in more now than when I bought it.

The 1.6 is 16v, or was the last time I looked... Wink

Not keen on the X-Type.  Not especially well built / reliable either from what I can gather.
Reply
#7
(26-05-2019, 03:28 PM)bikergraham Wrote:  
(25-05-2019, 05:02 PM)SteveC123 Wrote:  Hi

I have a 2006 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi Combi, which was only meant to be a cheap stopgap and eight months later is still here given how useful it’s proven to be.

The brakes on it have never been all that and so I replaced the front discs and pads a few months ago (Brembo rather than the cheapest ECP stock), which seemed to improve things a little but not to the point you’d start to think you have excellent brakes under you.

What I have recently noticed is that when braking hard at higher speeds, you can feel the back end of the car pull down. Is this a characteristic of the rear beam set up or a sign that the brakes on the back are doing more of the work than they should be?

You also hear a hum that gets louder and louder when braking as above. Never any noise at any other time / from cold etc.

I’ve had a good look at the rear beam, and unlike the pics I’ve seen of the vans etc, there doesn’t already to be a load compensator valve either, as that might have been one of my first ports of call usually.

Any suggestions on what it’s most likely to be gratefully received.

Just to add as poor as the brakes are, it always stops in a straight line, no pulling to one side etc.

TIA
Just a thought Steve , if the back end is drooping could it effect the brake compensation valve enough to make the rear brakes overwork ?  Are your rear tyres wearing more on the outside shoulder ? You can check the ride height , you should be able to find what it should be from the interwebs or a good workshop manual . My brakes aren't that great but im used to them , the only thing is that when I drive my fathers Renault Kangoo it nearly throws me through the window when I brake until I get used to it ! . Perhaps you could get a garage to check it on a rolling road as they do for the MOT , they'll soon tell you if anything's wrong . Shouldn't cost too much for peace of mind .

Hi Graham

Back end actually sits quite high - it's an Escapade and I believe they were that bit higher from the factory over some models.  The issue is the wheels are starting to lean in at the top.  Some wear on the shoulder, yes.

I've got used to the brakes not being that great and round town / gentle out of town, it's never really caused a problem as they work in a way that says 'they maybe a bit crap but that's how they're meant to be, Sir'.

However, high speed and applied hard, they definitely aren't how they should be.

No compensator valve due to being an ABS model.

I'm going to order rear shoes, drums and wheel cylinders for next week and strip it down.  Hopefully they (if needed - if not, ECP will refund on anything returned) and a full fluid flush and change will have the desired effect.

If it does, then maybe I'll throw some more money at it.  Smile
Reply
#8
Because its dipping down at the back when you brake its because the rear brakes are working and working better than the front. Its the front that should be dipping when braking.

Its the front brakes I'd be looking at
2001 1.9d DW8B  Berlingo
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#9
It does sound like the front brakes are lacking in stopping power.

Appreciate the discs & pads are new but are the calipers nice and free on their slides?

Do the pistons in the calipers pump out and push back nice and smoothly?


.
My vehicle .... 2006 (m59) Berlingo Multispace Desire - 1.6 HDI 92 
Reply
#10
(28-05-2019, 05:49 PM)SteveC123 Wrote:  
(26-05-2019, 03:28 PM)bikergraham Wrote:  
(25-05-2019, 05:02 PM)SteveC123 Wrote:  Hi

I have a 2006 Peugeot Partner 1.6HDi Combi, which was only meant to be a cheap stopgap and eight months later is still here given how useful it’s proven to be.

The brakes on it have never been all that and so I replaced the front discs and pads a few months ago (Brembo rather than the cheapest ECP stock), which seemed to improve things a little but not to the point you’d start to think you have excellent brakes under you.

What I have recently noticed is that when braking hard at higher speeds, you can feel the back end of the car pull down. Is this a characteristic of the rear beam set up or a sign that the brakes on the back are doing more of the work than they should be?

You also hear a hum that gets louder and louder when braking as above. Never any noise at any other time / from cold etc.

I’ve had a good look at the rear beam, and unlike the pics I’ve seen of the vans etc, there doesn’t already to be a load compensator valve either, as that might have been one of my first ports of call usually.

Any suggestions on what it’s most likely to be gratefully received.

Just to add as poor as the brakes are, it always stops in a straight line, no pulling to one side etc.

TIA
Just a thought Steve , if the back end is drooping could it effect the brake compensation valve enough to make the rear brakes overwork ?  Are your rear tyres wearing more on the outside shoulder ? You can check the ride height , you should be able to find what it should be from the interwebs or a good workshop manual . My brakes aren't that great but im used to them , the only thing is that when I drive my fathers Renault Kangoo it nearly throws me through the window when I brake until I get used to it ! . Perhaps you could get a garage to check it on a rolling road as they do for the MOT , they'll soon tell you if anything's wrong . Shouldn't cost too much for peace of mind .

Hi Graham

Back end actually sits quite high - it's an Escapade and I believe they were that bit higher from the factory over some models.  The issue is the wheels are starting to lean in at the top.  Some wear on the shoulder, yes.

I've got used to the brakes not being that great and round town / gentle out of town, it's never really caused a problem as they work in a way that says 'they maybe a bit crap but that's how they're meant to be, Sir'.

However, high speed and applied hard, they definitely aren't how they should be.

No compensator valve due to being an ABS model.

I'm going to order rear shoes, drums and wheel cylinders for next week and strip it down.  Hopefully they (if needed - if not, ECP will refund on anything returned) and a full fluid flush and change will have the desired effect.

If it does, then maybe I'll throw some more money at it.  Smile

That's a good idea to change the brake fluid , that's exactly the fault that bad fluid could cause , do you change it regularly ? if not then you may have got to the bottom of it . Good luck , and please let us know if it  made any difference .
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