[Steering & Suspension] Lower ball-joint boots

[BingoBlingo]

This is my first post so please forgive me for any breaches of etiquette.
Mine is a 2005 2.0 Hdi, and is currently on a campsite in France. The lower suspension arm is cast and has an integral ball-joint.
Before leaving home (Scotland) I noticed a tear on the boot of the RHS lower balljoint. As the ball-joint seemed OK and had passed the MOT only 150 miles before, I replaced the boot, securing it with bands. I checked it periodically and it was OK for over 1,000 miles. I checked it again two days ago, after a 20 mile trip, and noticed that the lower securing band had broken but was still in place. The upper band remains intact. I also noticed some cracking near the upper rear part of the boot. The cracks were horizontal and formed a discontinuous line.
I assume that the boot is fixed at its lower end but rotates around the ball-joint shaft at its upper end.
This may be far-fetched but I am wondering if the upper end of the boot is sticking to the shaft, and when the wheels turn left or right the boot becomes twisted, initially causing cracking of the boot and then failure of the lower band.
I should explain that the Berlingo didn't move for a period of about 10 days, during which time temperatures reached 40 C, and the RHS of the car was facing south.
I could check the behaviour of the boot if I could lift both wheels clear of the ground, but unfortunately I didn't bring my axle-stands on holiday ( my wife definitely wouldn't have allowed that !).
Thanks in anticipation.

[ron]

This is my first post so please forgive me for any breaches of etiquette.
Mine is a 2005 2.0 Hdi, and is currently on a campsite in France. The lower suspension arm is cast and has an integral ball-joint.
Before leaving home (Scotland) I noticed a tear on the boot of the RHS lower balljoint. As the ball-joint seemed OK and had passed the MOT only 150 miles before, I replaced the boot, securing it with bands. I checked it periodically and it was OK for over 1,000 miles. I checked it again two days ago, after a 20 mile trip, and noticed that the lower securing band had broken but was still in place. The upper band remains intact. I also noticed some cracking near the upper rear part of the boot. The cracks were horizontal and formed a discontinuous line.
I assume that the boot is fixed at its lower end but rotates around the ball-joint shaft at its upper end.
This may be far-fetched but I am wondering if the upper end of the boot is sticking to the shaft, and when the wheels turn left or right the boot becomes twisted, initially causing cracking of the boot and then failure of the lower band.
I should explain that the Berlingo didn't move for a period of about 10 days, during which time temperatures reached 40 C, and the RHS of the car was facing south.
I could check the behaviour of the boot if I could lift both wheels clear of the ground, but unfortunately I didn't bring my axle-stands on holiday ( my wife definitely wouldn't have allowed that !).
Thanks in anticipation.

What you say is quite possible with an old hardening boot.If the joint is still sound,I would advise spraying motorcycle chain lube into the joint in small doses,keeping it off the disc.I would then change the whole arm//joint when you get home.HTH

[polar]

Leave well alone and change the arm when you get home.

I would not spray any lube into it because if its close to fail it may give enough lubrication for the joint to pop out.

[BingoBlingo]

This is my first post so please forgive me for any breaches of etiquette.
Mine is a 2005 2.0 Hdi, and is currently on a campsite in France. The lower suspension arm is cast and has an integral ball-joint.
Before leaving home (Scotland) I noticed a tear on the boot of the RHS lower balljoint. As the ball-joint seemed OK and had passed the MOT only 150 miles before, I replaced the boot, securing it with bands. I checked it periodically and it was OK for over 1,000 miles. I checked it again two days ago, after a 20 mile trip, and noticed that the lower securing band had broken but was still in place. The upper band remains intact. I also noticed some cracking near the upper rear part of the boot. The cracks were horizontal and formed a discontinuous line.
I assume that the boot is fixed at its lower end but rotates around the ball-joint shaft at its upper end.
This may be far-fetched but I am wondering if the upper end of the boot is sticking to the shaft, and when the wheels turn left or right the boot becomes twisted, initially causing cracking of the boot and then failure of the lower band.
I should explain that the Berlingo didn't move for a period of about 10 days, during which time temperatures reached 40 C, and the RHS of the car was facing south.
I could check the behaviour of the boot if I could lift both wheels clear of the ground, but unfortunately I didn't bring my axle-stands on holiday ( my wife definitely wouldn't have allowed that !).
Thanks in anticipation.

What you say is quite possible with an old hardening boot.If the joint is still sound,I would advise spraying motorcycle chain lube into the joint in small doses,keeping it off the disc.I would then change the whole arm//joint when you get home.HTH

[BingoBlingo]

Hello Ron, Polar,
Many thanks for your replies.
The boot is almost new but was bought on ebay at lower end of price range so may not be be made from best material, and thus was unable to cope with the heat.
I checked the condition of the ball-joint by raising wheel off ground using jacking point and checking for any 12/6 o'clock movement; there was none. I also raised the wheel off the ground by jacking under the outer end of the suspension arm but again no 12/6 movement.
Local Peugeot dealer refuses to change boot and I am awaiting his estimate for fitting new arm.
My current thoughts are to remove upper rubber ring on boot so that the boot can rotate more freely. The boot has cracks but has not yet split, so I am thinking of smearing grease along the cracks to inhibit the entry of dust and moisture.

[ron]

Leave well alone and change the arm when you get home.

I would not spray any lube into it because if its close to fail it may give enough lubrication for the joint to pop out.

I did say "if the joint is sound" & I stick to my advice under those circumstances.

[BingoBlingo]

Hi Polar, hi Ron,

I drove back carefully and slowly for the 200 miles to Dieppe (not much choice really - French national speed limit was reduced to 80 kph last year). I am lucky to have a friend who lives only 10 miles from the ferry terminal at Newhaven and I had arranged for a ball-joint boot to be delivered to her address. When I removed the old boot (24 mm high, bought on ebay from Amutraders), I noticed that the tear did not extend to the inner surface. So I am no longer sure whether the tear was caused by a) twisting when steering left or right, or b) excessive folding of a boot that was too high for this situation. I fitted the new boot (20 mm high, bought on ebay from PAS) and drove the 700 miles from Sussex to the north of Scotland. The new boot seems to have survived that journey without any signs of distress. My new question is this; when I removed the ball-joint shank from the suspension arm, I noticed that the shank moved freely (i.e. with less stiffness than found in a new ball-joint) but I couldn't detect any play in the joint.  Do I need to change the ball-joint and suspension arm ?

[ffrenchie]

 when I removed the ball-joint shank from the suspension arm, I noticed that the shank moved freely (i.e. with less stiffness than found in a new ball-joint) but I couldn't detect any play in the joint.  Do I need to change the ball-joint and suspension arm ?

New ball joints are sometimes too stiff to move with your bare hands, if there is not too much free play and no clunk I would keep using it and check in a few weeks time to see if it has degraded. It would have to be very bad (falling apart) for the ball to become detached because of the way they are made.

[geoff]

For the work involved fit a new joint

[BingoBlingo]

For the work involved fit a new joint

If it was just a new ball-joint, I would fit one without hesitation. Unfortunately, my ball-joint is integral with the suspension arm. I know that suspension arms are not too expensive (I have seen some for as little as £30) but what deters me is the difficulty of fitting the replacement arm. In particular, there is a through bolt at the rear support for the arm, and it passes through one of the anti-roll bar clamps. I have heard from two sources that re-fitting this bolt is a real b*****d. Is there an easy method of re-fitting this bolt ? Would it help if both front wheels were raised clear of the ground ?
Thanks in anticipation.