1,6 HDi 16v timing chain marks

[bhcalcutta2]

Can anybody please confirm, or disprove, that there are 2 different cam setups available on the 1.6HDi. There's an image attached by way of explanation of this question

[polar]

Can anybody please confirm, or disprove, that there are 2 different cam setups available on the 1.6HDi. There's an image attached by way of explanation of this question

I do remember reading something about this maybe on this forum?

Why do you question the information you have there it looks authentic to me.

[bhcalcutta2]

Can anybody please confirm, or disprove, that there are 2 different cam setups available on the 1.6HDi. There's an image attached by way of explanation of this question

I do remember reading something about this maybe on this forum?

Why do you question the information you have there it looks authentic to me.

Hi there, thanks for the reply. 
The reasons I question the info are;

There is absolutely no mention of this in the Haynes "book of lies" 

I can only find 2 references to the different camshafts in hours of searching the interweb. 

The cam ladder I'm using (off a 57 plate) was timed up to 12 chain pins, even though the cams are marked with the squares rather than the arrows, and that engine did run. 

The cam ladder I'm replacing (55 plate) also had the square marked cams, but it was impossible to check the timing as the tensioner was knackered, and had jumped several teeth resulting in inlet and exhaust opening at virtually the same time. 

I moved the good cam ladder over, and the exhaust valves interfered on wind over with a spanner. They did only just interfere though, if you waited 30 seconds or so, you could carry on turning to the next TDC. 

I've retimed the cams to 16 pins and it's now not interfering, and is even trying to start, sort of, but now it feels like it's injecting tus a touch too early as the engine pauses when it trys to fire. I know this shouldn't have anything to do with the cam timing though. 

I should add that the engine I'm trying to start has had a full top end rebuild 

All the best, Pat

[cancunia]

I've just been looking at the BOL for a C5 1.6HDi, as you say, there's no mention of an alternate chain. 12 Pins is between the black plates so I guess that's the chain that you have on both engines?
It may be that using your VIN in service.citroen.com will tell you which chain you need, maybe there are pictures of that chain somewhere.

Found this, much the same as your picture:

Arrows=12 pins
Squares=16 pins

http://replace-timing-belt.com/how-to-re...2006-2011/

[bhcalcutta2]

I've just been looking at the BOL for a C5 1.6HDi, as you say, there's no mention of an alternate chain. 12 Pins is between the black plates so I guess that's the chain that you have on both engines?
It may be that using your VIN in service.citroen.com will tell you which chain you need, maybe there are pictures of that chain somewhere.

Found this, much the same as your picture:

Arrows=12 pins
Squares=16 pins

http://replace-timing-belt.com/how-to-re...2006-2011/

That's the other piece of info I found, and even that isn't strictly correct, both cam ladders I have here have cam sets marked with the squares, yet they both have the three spoke pulleys that supposedly go on the arrow marked cams. Add to that the fact that both cam sets had chains on that were specifically marked for 12 pin timing.

I put my VIN in the link you provided, and the part# for the chain leads to a "12 pin" marked chain. The cams listed for my vehicle would appear to have been superseded, so I'm guessing that PSA have moved from one set to the other.

Seems very strange that they would change the timing marks on the cams though

[bhcalcutta2]

I've just been looking at the BOL for a C5 1.6HDi, as you say, there's no mention of an alternate chain. 12 Pins is between the black plates so I guess that's the chain that you have on both engines?
It may be that using your VIN in service.citroen.com will tell you which chain you need, maybe there are pictures of that chain somewhere.

Found this, much the same as your picture:

Arrows=12 pins
Squares=16 pins

http://replace-timing-belt.com/how-to-re...2006-2011/

That's the other piece of info I found, and even that isn't strictly correct, both cam ladders I have here have cam sets marked with the squares, yet they both have the three spoke pulleys that supposedly go on the arrow marked cams. Add to that the fact that both cam sets had chains on that were specifically marked for 12 pin timing.

I put my VIN in the link you provided, and the part# for the chain leads to a "12 pin" marked chain. The cams listed for my vehicle would appear to have been superseded, so I'm guessing that PSA have moved from one set to the other.

Seems very strange that they would change the timing marks on the cams though

I now have the engine running, and the information regarding the timing marks on the cams is definitely incorrect. My cams are marked with the squares, but timed up to 16 pins I had exhaust & inlet open on the same cylinder for approximately 1/4 of a revolution. i determined this by attaching the ladder to the cylinder head off my dead engine.
Timed up to 12 pins the timing looked correct, and after the heartache of getting a rebuilt dv6 engine running, runs like a dream.

It would seem my initial problems were a knackered chain & tensioner, added to the fact that the sprocket on the exhaust cam appears to have slipped round on the cam by about 2 teeth. I only discovered this when comparing the old and new cams

[vbv40]

1,6 HDI 16 V 9HW, Camshaft check, Partner 2007 167 K km.

Help needed after 
T-belt failure at 70 km/h          
4 lifters  (cyl. 1 + 4 exhaust) cracked, 4 valves bended.
Now i`ve renewed all 16 valves, hydraulic tappets and lifters. After reinstall C.head, and T-belt kit,
Check of timing chain marks, is ok
the engine takes about 3/4 rev. by hand, and then hit the valve ? ? ?
i´m sure that i used the 3 timing lock holes correct, crank, cam and pump, and the belt is correct routed.

On different places I read that the camshaft is´nt a solid piece of steel, but crimped together by a number of parts, and it´s possible that it can get out of position in a T-belt crash ? ? ? can anyone confirm that ? And if . . . .

Does anyone know how to check the position of the cams and sprocket, or where I can find some knowledge about this issue.

Any help is much appreciated

Cheers

Jakob C. Denmark

[jj9]

. . .  On different places I read that the camshaft is´nt a solid piece of steel, but crimped together by a number of parts, and it´s possible that it can get out of position in a T-belt crash ? ? ? can anyone confirm that ? And if . . . .

Does anyone know how to check the position of the cams and sprocket, or where I can find some knowledge about this issue.

Any help is much appreciated

Cheers

Jakob C. Denmark

The pressed on lobe camshafts are known as  "Assembled Camshafts"  and yes the lobes can be knocked out of alignment.

I'm not sure if the 1.6hdi 16 valve engine (like yours) uses assembled camshafts but if I had to guess, I would guess they probably do.

This video link below shows the problem but please note the engine in the video is the later 8 valve engine.    

https://youtu.be/QCqlyWDrMjU?t=2088


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