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EGR valve - clean, blank, or replace?
#1
For a couple of days we've had an oily smell coming into the car when coming to a halt. It's not like diesel, or exhaust, just oily. As we were coming past the dealer today we called and they had a look. Verdict is that it's coming from the EGR. Quote for a new one including fitting is around £280 Sad  
Anyone have any thoughts please? The car is a 2006 1.6hdi, 90bhp, 108k. Haven't really looked at DIY options and EGR valve prices and types seem to vary a lot. Thanks folks.
'56 Multispace 1.6HDi - Iron Grey
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#2
There are a few posts in the M59 section on EGR valves. It's an easy enough job on the 1.6 to blank them, it would be a good first step in diagnosing your problem.
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  • pidgeonpost
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#3
Look around the injectors if there is an oily tar like residue you could be getting fumes from leaking seals. If they are leaking bad sometimes you get a chuffing noise while running. You can get away with tightening them up but if bad you will need new seals but not pricey.
Are we there yet????? Huh
Ex 1.6hdi van now 3 seater 1.4 multispace
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  • pidgeonpost
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#4
(11-10-2019, 06:47 AM)Tomcat3 Wrote:  Look around the injectors if there is an oily tar like residue you could be getting fumes from leaking seals. If they are leaking bad sometimes you get a chuffing noise while running. You can get away with tightening them up but if bad you will need new seals but not pricey.

Good point, the 1.6 injector clamps have a habit of coming loose, you'll need a 7mm allen key to check/tighten them. While we're on the bigger picture, is the air filter housing wobbling around? If so, you may be getting excess oil pulled through the turbo.
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  • pidgeonpost
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#5
(11-10-2019, 07:06 AM)cancunia Wrote:  
(11-10-2019, 06:47 AM)Tomcat3 Wrote:  Look around the injectors if there is an oily tar like residue you could be getting fumes from leaking seals. If they are leaking bad sometimes you get a chuffing noise while running. You can get away with tightening them up but if bad you will need new seals but not pricey.

Good point, the 1.6 injector clamps have a habit of coming loose, you'll need a 7mm allen key to check/tighten them. While we're on the bigger picture, is the air filter housing wobbling around? If so, you may be getting excess oil pulled through the turbo.

Thanks for those pointers gents. At MOT time they commented that the air box rubbers were worn, and yes, the ducting is all a bit wobbly. I guess that if the ducting has to come out to do the EGR valve it might make sense to replace these rubbers at the same time - if spares are available. Unfortunately I don't have a Haynes manual to read up on what's involved and at 71 the idea of under-bonnet grovelling isn't as attractive as it used to be.  Undecided
'56 Multispace 1.6HDi - Iron Grey
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#6
It could be that the air box is rubbing on the EGR valve. The pipework from the air intake to the turbo includes a breather pipe from the cover at the top of the engine (guess they're not called rocker covers any more!), there's a valve inside the cover that depends on a vacuum from the turbo, the MAF also relies on that vacuum to get an accurate reading on airflow. Have a search around in the M59 section for things like EGR , Air Filter , Catchcan.
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  • pidgeonpost
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#7
After doing a bit more reading about the joys of EGR ownership I'm hoping to get another look at things one day this week. A few weeks back I removed the ducting and airbox just to get a look at things and see what I was up against. The ducting is all showing its age, being rather floppy and loose-jointed. This ducting seems relatively expensive for new replacements, so I expect a combination of tape, cable ties, maybe even the odd self-tapper will be required when reassembling.
The airbox is not in good shape (see pic) with what looks like a broken grommet holder, worn remaining grommet, and a small hole where everything has been flopping around and rubbing together. It also has a coating of soot on part of the underside - not sure where that's come from - needs further investigation.
As to the EGR valve, the Valeo ones are £120-£130, but Googling the part number threw up this one which is a bit more wallet friendly if cleaning doesn't cure the problem.

[img][Image: IMG-20191015-143644.jpg][/img]
[img][Image: IMG-20191015-143733.jpg][/img]
'56 Multispace 1.6HDi - Iron Grey
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#8
If your airbox mounting bracket on the back of the engine was like mine it was made of plastic and what happens ham fisted users break the bracket trying to force the box back into the bracket. I brought the updated bracket made of metal like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Peuge...XQVERS3PeW
Just a tip put some silicone grease on the rubber grommets and box will slide in no problem and then the box wont move around and rattle.
Are we there yet????? Huh
Ex 1.6hdi van now 3 seater 1.4 multispace
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  • pidgeonpost
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#9
All sound advice from everyone. If you are buying a new EGR valve and not blanking it, stay clear of the Haas ones. I bought a brand new Haas that within 6 months started sticking. When I opened it, it was not full of gunk or anything (6 months of use, ~5,000 miles on it) the metal pin that operates the up/down of the valve itself moves on a channel. The channel was really roughly made and the pin sometimes was sticking and could not move, it was that badly made.
I bought Hella EGR valve from amazon of all places and 2 years on, no problems at all. As far as I remember, ~£140.

A lot of grommets around the airbox that disappear pretty quickly, especially the bottom ones, I put new ones with cable ties to keep them from disappearing. This is how I made my airbox nearly silent: https://youtu.be/qBNSyRF79VQ
smile, you are alive!
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  • pidgeonpost
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#10
(24-11-2019, 07:55 PM)Tomcat3 Wrote:  If your airbox mounting bracket on the back of the engine was like mine it was made of plastic and what happens ham fisted users break the bracket trying to force the box back into the bracket. I brought the updated bracket made of metal like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Peuge...XQVERS3PeW
Just a tip put some silicone grease on the rubber grommets and box will slide in no problem and then the box wont move around and rattle.

(24-11-2019, 10:15 PM)saskak Wrote:  All sound advice from everyone. If you are buying a new EGR valve and not blanking it, stay clear of the Haas ones. I bought a brand new Haas that within 6 months started sticking. When I opened it, it was not full of gunk or anything (6 months of use, ~5,000 miles on it) the metal pin that operates the up/down of the valve itself moves on a channel. The channel was really roughly made and the pin sometimes was sticking and could not move, it was that badly made.
I bought Hella EGR valve from amazon of all places and 2 years on, no problems at all. As far as I remember, ~£140.

A lot of grommets around the airbox that disappear pretty quickly, especially the bottom ones, I put new ones with cable ties to keep them from disappearing. This is how I made my airbox nearly silent: https://youtu.be/qBNSyRF79VQ

Thanks for the ongoing tips gents. Regarding the mounting bracket, I can't remember whether our car has a metal or plastic mounting bracket, and I can't get my hands on the car until Thursday at the earliest as my wife needs to use it.
Given that the airbox itself has a hole in it and one of the grommet holders is broken I'm a bit tempted to replace the airbox itself as there are a couple on eBay. The hole I could probably fix with some Milliput, but finding a fix or work-around for the broken grommet holder could be tricky.
As you can see, the underside of the airbox has a coating of soot. I need to take a look at other components in that area to see if I can see where it's coming from. It could perhaps be coming from the EGR valve, but I don't quite see how without getting under the bonnet again. I'll probably remove the EGR valve and clean it while I'm investigating this, but don't want to replace it unnecessarily if it's not the cause of the smell.
Saskak - when I clicked on the YouTube link I recognised it immediately as one that I'd watched before. It's very useful as are some of your other videos, so thanks for that too.  Smile
'56 Multispace 1.6HDi - Iron Grey
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