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Over Revving on gear change
#1
Really hoping someone may be able to help me out on this. (06 plate 1.6hdi 75hp)

So, 17 mile journey, 15 miles motorway, 2 miles normal roads, car starts over revving on gear changes on normal roads to the point I wasn't sure I'd get back home. I checked for stuck car mat under accelerator pedal and did a drop test on the clutch, all o.k. From the start of the problem to reaching destination the revs were slowly increasing to the point I couldn't change gear for a few seconds until they came back down. Called out Greenflag, oh it's your clutch mate, did a drop test, oh no it's not....no problem found as it didn't do it on his test drive. He suggested for peace of mind get the fault codes read at a garage.

Take it to garage. no fault codes found, all air hoses fine, didn't do it on his test drive.

2 weeks later and on only second journey since garage it happened again. Drove 27 miles, 20 on motorway then 7 through heavy traffic in town, no problems. Turn engine off for 10 mins while loading then set off on return journey and it starts again, brake return journey up at 15 miles with a stop at a garden centre as it was getting really bad, 20 minute brew then back home another 12 miles with no problem.

The car does stand a lot, perhaps only gets used once or twice a week but does France once a year and at the moment I don't trust it for that journey.

I have searched the forum and found only one topic where it was the clutch, but as that's been ruled out I'm a bit stuck.
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#2
I had a similar problem with my 2.0 HDI and if I were to 'blip' the throttle when my foot was on the clutch the revs would drop back down. The likely cause was either a throttle cable or throttle position sensor so I changed the TPS as this was a cheap, quick and easy fix (£19 on the bay). I have not had a reoccurrence in 6 months so it seems to have fixed the issue.
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#3
(10-02-2020, 05:07 PM)td5 Wrote:  I had a similar problem with my 2.0 HDI and if I were to 'blip' the throttle when my foot was on the clutch the revs would drop back down. The likely cause was either a throttle cable or throttle position sensor so I changed the TPS as this was a cheap, quick and easy fix (£19 on the bay). I have not had a reoccurrence in 6 months so it seems to have fixed the issue.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated. I had thought about the TPS but was told it would show as a fault, but it didn't, something to do with a faulty potentiometer. For the price it may well just be worth changing it anyway....hmm.

Gr
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#4
(10-02-2020, 05:34 PM)Vossy1 Wrote:  
(10-02-2020, 05:07 PM)td5 Wrote:  I had a similar problem with my 2.0 HDI and if I were to 'blip' the throttle when my foot was on the clutch the revs would drop back down. The likely cause was either a throttle cable or throttle position sensor so I changed the TPS as this was a cheap, quick and easy fix (£19 on the bay). I have not had a reoccurrence in 6 months so it seems to have fixed the issue.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated. I had thought about the TPS but was told it would show as a fault, but it didn't, something to do with a faulty potentiometer. For the price it may well just be worth changing it anyway....hmm.

Gr

Yes, you have reminded me, I got "P2299 (Brake Pedal Position / Accelerator Pedal Position Incompatible" but this would clear after a couple of restarts. This occurrence was particularly evident when I was slowing down and applied the footbrake gently. I guess it thought that I was trying to accelerate and brake at the same time and didn't like it.
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#5
(10-02-2020, 05:34 PM)Vossy1 Wrote:  
(10-02-2020, 05:07 PM)td5 Wrote:  I had a similar problem with my 2.0 HDI and if I were to 'blip' the throttle when my foot was on the clutch the revs would drop back down. The likely cause was either a throttle cable or throttle position sensor so I changed the TPS as this was a cheap, quick and easy fix (£19 on the bay). I have not had a reoccurrence in 6 months so it seems to have fixed the issue.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated. I had thought about the TPS but was told it would show as a fault, but it didn't, something to do with a faulty potentiometer. For the price it may well just be worth changing it anyway....hmm.

Gr

Take note that some faults do not register as permanent faults, some don't even leave an intermittent fault for example the flywheel sensor. I'd think the TPS could be one of such.
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#6
Thanks for the reply. I checked with the garage today and he said the TPS should leave a fault code, he also reminded me he'd inspected and cleaned the throttle body.

I'm not familiar with fault code readers (I think I need one) obviously I'll search for a answer but another question. How long does a car keep the codes listed for? I'm wondering as the fault didnt happen when the mechanic tested the car so any trace code would I'm guessing be historic. He told me he also had the car hooked up when running, again no faults.

The idea of simply replacing the TPS was a nice one until I found its built into the accelerator pedal, dealer cost over £170!
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#7
(12-02-2020, 03:37 PM)Vossy1 Wrote:  Thanks for the reply. I checked with the garage today and he said the TPS should leave a fault code, he also reminded me he'd inspected and cleaned the throttle body.

I'm not familiar with fault code readers (I think I need one) obviously I'll search for a answer but another question. How long does a car keep the codes listed for? I'm wondering as the fault didnt happen when the mechanic tested the car so any trace code would I'm guessing be historic. He told me he also had the car hooked up when running, again no faults.

The idea of simply replacing the TPS was a nice one until I found its built into the accelerator pedal, dealer cost over £170!

An example item description on the bay suggests yours is the same as mine "THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR FITS CITROEN BERLINGO DISPATCH RELAY JUMPER 1.6 2.0 2.2" and these can be had for upwards of £20 and is a straightforward bolt on swap in the engine bay and can be seen at the end of the cable. It tilts under pressure when the accelerator is depressed so if you have someone in the car pressing it down you can see exactly what's going on in the engine bay. I'm no mechanic but I swapped it over in my lunch break and needed little more than a spanner.

My code disappeared each time after a short while but the guy who MoTd the car for me spotted on his way back from the testing station and put a generic code reader on it straight away. My copy of Lexia didn't catch it when I plugged it in though.

If you are able to reproduce the issue whilst driving, do try blipping the throttle quickly with your foot on the clutch and see if it settles down again (assuming driving conditions permit) as at least then you'll have some confidence that it's something mechanical sticking (cable, tps or the pedal itself)
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#8
(12-02-2020, 06:44 PM)td5 Wrote:  
(12-02-2020, 03:37 PM)Vossy1 Wrote:  Thanks for the reply. I checked with the garage today and he said the TPS should leave a fault code, he also reminded me he'd inspected and cleaned the throttle body.

I'm not familiar with fault code readers (I think I need one) obviously I'll search for a answer but another question. How long does a car keep the codes listed for? I'm wondering as the fault didnt happen when the mechanic tested the car so any trace code would I'm guessing be historic. He told me he also had the car hooked up when running, again no faults.

The idea of simply replacing the TPS was a nice one until I found its built into the accelerator pedal, dealer cost over £170!

An example item description on the bay suggests yours is the same as mine "THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR FITS CITROEN BERLINGO DISPATCH RELAY JUMPER 1.6 2.0 2.2" and these can be had for upwards of £20 and is a straightforward bolt on swap in the engine bay and can be seen at the end of the cable. It tilts under pressure when the accelerator is depressed so if you have someone in the car pressing it down you can see exactly what's going on in the engine bay. I'm no mechanic but I swapped it over in my lunch break and needed little more than a spanner.

My code disappeared each time after a short while but the guy who MoTd the car for me spotted on his way back from the testing station and put a generic code reader on it straight away. My copy of Lexia didn't catch it when I plugged it in though.

If you are able to reproduce the issue whilst driving, do try blipping the throttle quickly with your foot on the clutch and see if it settles down again (assuming driving conditions permit) as at least then you'll have some confidence that it's something mechanical sticking (cable, tps or the pedal itself)
Having had a quick look at my Haynes manual I think there might be some confusion (even at Citroen) as to it being the electronic accelerator pedal and position sensor v the TPS. My car has no cable. The pedal for my car is Ebay item 233410486287. Apparently the Throttle Potentiometer for my car is fitted to the injection pump, and it comes with the Haynes advice of leaving it to a main dealer...lol.
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#9
(12-02-2020, 09:35 PM)Vossy1 Wrote:  
(12-02-2020, 06:44 PM)td5 Wrote:  
(12-02-2020, 03:37 PM)Vossy1 Wrote:  Thanks for the reply. I checked with the garage today and he said the TPS should leave a fault code, he also reminded me he'd inspected and cleaned the throttle body.

I'm not familiar with fault code readers (I think I need one) obviously I'll search for a answer but another question. How long does a car keep the codes listed for? I'm wondering as the fault didnt happen when the mechanic tested the car so any trace code would I'm guessing be historic. He told me he also had the car hooked up when running, again no faults.

The idea of simply replacing the TPS was a nice one until I found its built into the accelerator pedal, dealer cost over £170!

An example item description on the bay suggests yours is the same as mine "THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR FITS CITROEN BERLINGO DISPATCH RELAY JUMPER 1.6 2.0 2.2" and these can be had for upwards of £20 and is a straightforward bolt on swap in the engine bay and can be seen at the end of the cable. It tilts under pressure when the accelerator is depressed so if you have someone in the car pressing it down you can see exactly what's going on in the engine bay. I'm no mechanic but I swapped it over in my lunch break and needed little more than a spanner.

My code disappeared each time after a short while but the guy who MoTd the car for me spotted on his way back from the testing station and put a generic code reader on it straight away. My copy of Lexia didn't catch it when I plugged it in though.

If you are able to reproduce the issue whilst driving, do try blipping the throttle quickly with your foot on the clutch and see if it settles down again (assuming driving conditions permit) as at least then you'll have some confidence that it's something mechanical sticking (cable, tps or the pedal itself)
Having had a quick look at my Haynes manual I think there might be some confusion (even at Citroen) as to it being the electronic accelerator pedal and position sensor v the TPS. My car has no cable. The pedal for my car is Ebay item 233410486287. Apparently the Throttle Potentiometer for my car is fitted to the injection pump, and it comes with the Haynes advice of leaving it to a main dealer...lol.

Regardless of it being a pedal position sensor, or throttle position sensor operated the cable inside the bonnet, they are all potentiometers and they all work the same way.
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#10
Thanks for the replt Civvic. Yes I believe they are and there may be a way to test them for resitance from my brief reading. I do have a multi meter but given the warning in the Haynes manual re the TPS I'm not sure I'd tackle it
The internet is a wonderful thing but can be very frustrating when you don't know exactly what you're looking for, ...ha ha.
I'm ordering a code reader this weekend so if it happens again at least I'll be able to hook it up there and then.
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