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Poor Brakes Part Deux
#1
Following on from the thread I posted a while back regarding poor brakes on my Partner 1.6HDi and a decent bleed improving them, I kind of accepted the view on Honest John that the brakes on these aren’t that great.

However, I’ve had to brake hard at motorway speeds today and as before, you could feel the back end squat right down and then really loud humming coming from there too coupled with a fall off in performance.

So as before, the rears are obviously doing more of the work than they should be as they’re overheating, hence the noise.

This was with just me in the car and minimal weight in the back.

So what should I try / check now? I can’t believe this is normal and if it is then I’d like to know what can done upgrade wise (even if that means swapping out the master cylinder / front calipers / rear beam.

Just to add it’s a 55 plate with ABS, which I think explains the lack of one of the usual suspects, as in a bias compensator valve by the OSR.

TIA
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#2
Hi - I'm no ABS expert but would the system force the rear brakes to work harder if one or both of the front calipers was defective?

My thoughts would be to check the calipers/pads first and if it looks like the caliper pistons or sliders are dodgy then replace them (YMMV but DIY caliper overhaul I've never found a great success)
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to GraemeT for this post:
  • SteveC123
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#3
You should have no problem with the brakes ive had my 08 well overweight and the brakes are fine.

If you have weight in the rear brakes should do more braking but when empty they do much less that is how they are designed. As for the noise you are hearing it could be the pads or shoes have gone hard with age or are just a poor brand.

If you have a problem with the performance something is wrong - As GraemeT says a decent brake overhaul by a good tec is your first port of call. Brakes are far more technical than a lot of people realise and paying a premium for pads or shoes is worth it especially if you carry a load regularly.
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#4
Happy to be told I'm wrong about this, but I thought the ABS will only come into effect if the wheels are turning at different rates? The reason I mention this is that if I'm right there's probably a load compensator valve?
The rear brakes overheating will be down to them having too much bias to start with, or having to stay on too long. A rolling road like they have at MOT stations will tell you what's happening.
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#5
(09-03-2020, 09:47 AM)cancunia Wrote:  Happy to be told I'm wrong about this, but I thought the ABS will only come into effect if the wheels are turning at different rates? The reason I mention this is that if I'm right there's probably a load compensator valve?
The rear brakes overheating will be down to them having too much bias to start with, or having to stay on too long. A rolling road like they have at MOT stations will tell you what's happening.


Cant see anything wrong with what you are saying all sound spot on to me.
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#6
The vehicles with ABS don't seem to have a load compensator valve, mine hasn't got one either (Discs on the rear of mine)

.
My vehicle .... 2006 (m59) Berlingo Multispace Desire - 1.6 HDI 92 
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#7
(09-03-2020, 09:50 PM)jj9 Wrote:  The vehicles with ABS don't seem to have a load compensator valve, mine hasn't got one either (Discs on the rear of mine)

.


I had this in the back of my mind but i cant think how this can be correct JJ - how does it detect a load thus giving more braking force to the rear. 

Or is it a case that it has 100% always to the rear and the abs stops the back locking up and coming round? Im not sure on the designed braking bias figures but a guess is 70/30


I think ive just answered my own question JJ - what do you think?
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#8
You would imagine that even with ABS there would still have to be a bias otherwise it would be kicking in every five minutes, but to be honest I've no idea how it's designed.

I think I need a bit of reading on the subject. 


.
My vehicle .... 2006 (m59) Berlingo Multispace Desire - 1.6 HDI 92 
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#9
Me too - the reading I mean

Try this explanation - works for me

https://www.aa1car.com/library/brake_balance.htm
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#10
(10-03-2020, 04:11 PM)GraemeT Wrote:  Me too - the reading I mean

Try this explanation - works for me

https://www.aa1car.com/library/brake_balance.htm

Thanks Graeme as i suspected the ABS controls the back and stops it locking up when empty or in poor traction conditions. So the back gets the same pressure of the front and the abs computer sorts out the ballance.
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