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Not Starting
#1
Hi All

I am after some advise on both of my vans please, but I will start with the Non Starter. It is a 58 Plate 1.6HDI 90BHP Partner. It was driving great up until 3 weeks ago. I drove it 20 miles from my Daughters house 3 Saturday nights ago, no problems, no funny noises, no warning lights. Went to start it the next day and it would turn over no problem, but wouldn't start up. Checked all obvious connections, etc, fuel level was good, oil needed 1/2 a litre to bring up to the max level, but that was it, everything appeared to be good. Tried again, but just the same. Disconnected the battery, made sure contacts were good, reconnected the battery and tried again. It fired into life for about 3/4 of a second then died. Tried to start it again, but it just turns over again. Every time I disconnect and reconnect the battery it will fire up for about 3/4 of a second and then dies, then just turns over.

Towed it to a local garage with my 12 Plate Berlingo. We tried to bump start it will towing it there, but nothing, not even the slightest attempted to fire into life. We showed the local garage what happens when we disconnect the battery, etc. they were a little baffled to, so they plugged the fault diagnostic tool into the port. The port showed a long list of faults which they cleared down. But it still wont start, tried the battery trick again and it was just the same, tried for 3/4 of a second then died, then just turns over. We did wonder if it was to do with the immobiliser, so we left the van with them. They called to say that the diagnostic tool showed that the ECU could not see the Key, so we thought that either the chip in the key had failed, or the chip reader near the ignition barrel had failed. They sent the van off to someone they knew to get a new key or something programmed for it. After 2 weeks they told me that the chap had programmed the Key chip into the ECU twice, but it still wont start. The van is now back at the garage.

The van has a full stainless steel exhaust, not a big bore noisy one, just a nice slightly more free flowing one. It has also had a Monster Remap, taking it from 90 BHP up to 116 BHP, this was done 3 months ago and has run fantastic until 3 weeks ago, the MPG went up greatly after the Remap, and the Mid Range Torque was increased nicely making it a very easy van to drive. Just thought I would mention it in case that has anything to do with the problem.

Does anyone have any idea what the problem could be, any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to read all of the above

Kind Regards

Tom
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#2
Have a look at the crank sensor mate. It doesn't leave a fault code but is likely the main contender. If you've gone this far, I'd just get one as they're not easy to test without a scope. Shouldn't be expensive.

I wouldn't normally advocate changing a part without investigation but if they have a scope then the CS should give a train of pulses during cranking. If it does, check the fuel pressure is there, i.e. the rail sensor works, the hp fuel pump is running when ignition is turned on and there are no air leaks at the filter or fuel lines.
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#3
(24-03-2020, 06:46 AM)Zion Wrote:  Have a look at the crank sensor mate. It doesn't leave a fault code but is likely the main contender. If you've gone this far, I'd just get one as they're not easy to test without a scope. Shouldn't be expensive.

I wouldn't normally advocate changing a part without investigation but if they have a scope then the CS should give a train of pulses during cranking. If it does, check the fuel pressure is there, i.e.  the rail sensor works, the hp fuel pump is running when ignition is turned on and there are no air leaks at the filter or fuel lines.

Hi Zion

Thank you very much for the advice, it is greatly appreciated. I will contact the garage and let them know.

Kind Regards

Tom
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#4
Hi - we had a similar problem on a HDi 92 HP - would start then cut out as soon as you tried to gve it any throttle. Leave it for a bit and it would start again, ticks over but then dies on throttle. That was fuel rail pressure sensor and it threw a code.

However I have a memory of a post on the forum (which I cannot find for the life of me) from one of the regulars regarding a failed bump start throwing the key/immobiliser system out of sync which then stops it starting from the key afterwards (but not turning over - it just grinds). Solution involved a key recode or Lexia I can't recall.

Maybe that rings a bell with somebody?

(The HDi engined Mini here does that but as there's a BMW system overlaying the Peugeot/Citroen ECU I may be wrong but that car does need to be computer reset after a failed bump start).

My suggestion is that  Zion's cure is the path to follow for the original problem but if the 'bump start sync' is a 'thing' and it is not fixed then it may be masking the original problem?

Maybe talking out of my *rse (my wife says I usually do) though.
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#5
(24-03-2020, 03:56 PM)GraemeT Wrote:  Hi - we had a similar problem on a HDi 92 HP - would start then cut out as soon as you tried to gve it any throttle. Leave it for a bit and it would start again, ticks over but then dies on throttle. That was fuel rail pressure sensor and it threw a code.

However I have a memory of a post on the forum (which I cannot find for the life of me) from one of the regulars regarding a failed bump start throwing the key/immobiliser system out of sync which then stops it starting from the key afterwards (but not turning over - it just grinds). Solution involved a key recode or Lexia I can't recall.

Maybe that rings a bell with somebody?

(The HDi engined Mini here does that but as there's a BMW system overlaying the Peugeot/Citroen ECU I may be wrong but that car does need to be computer reset after a failed bump start).

My suggestion is that  Zion's cure is the path to follow for the original problem but if the 'bump start sync' is a 'thing' and it is not fixed then it may be masking the original problem?

Maybe talking out of my *rse (my wife says I usually do) though.

Hi Graeme

Thank you for your reply, it is much appreciated. My 58 plate doesn't get as far as ticking over it just dies within a second. I will be passing any advice given onto them to try though. Unfortunately with everything that is going on at the moment they have closed their door for a few weeks now, so I wont know if they have any joy for at least 3 to 4 weeks.

Kind Regards

Tom
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#6
Found the thread by Geoff about the immobiliser/key https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-15245.html

I guess a lot of us are not doing much of anything for the next couple of weeks either
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#7
I would say crank position sensor. My dads van has been through 3 of them in its 13 years of life. Don't think the DV6ATED4 and a camshaft position sensor so i would say
its likely to be the crank position sensor likely. They're Not expensive but i don't know how hard they are to fit.
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#8
(25-03-2020, 07:04 PM)GraemeT Wrote:  Found the thread by Geoff about the immobiliser/key https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-15245.html

I guess a lot of us are not doing much of anything for the next couple of weeks either

I got the letter yesterday that tells me to take my 80% and F off,  but sadly i am an 1st year apprentice Mechanic who needs to fix his old mans berlingo before he gets flung out the house for not being good enough to fix his strange problem, so at least i'm occupied for a few weeks. 

Hope every one on the forms are doing OK and staying safe. Its dark times but we will get through it.
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#9
At least furlough means you get back when things go back to normal, what ever that ends up looking like. You've got time and age on your side. I'm sure you can get back on track again.

If you were made redundant at 55 then it's a whole different ball game.....

Oh and btw, I said crank sensor at the beginning. Good call!
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