[Engine] Starter relay built in to fuse box

[Lively]

So I have a 2009 1.6 hdi L2.  Basically one day it just wouldn’t start. A couple of guys looked at it and couldn’t sort it. I got it towed to a Citroen dealer and I got a call saying it was the starter relay and that it’s built into the fuse box so I have to buy a new fuse box for it. Going to cost between 1500 and 2k to fix. I just told them do it cos I need it for work. Anybody come across this before?

[Sol]

The BSI or body systems interface is the main operational gadget for all things non engine related and the engine ECU does the engine stuff. I know there are relays built into the BSI but it's inside the van, though it does have a lot of fuses in the outer cover for the functions it does, but Citroen know that and they're saying fusebox? If they'd said BSI then the price would make more sense.

The BSI is probably very costly from new via Citroen, not sure about the engine bay fusebox itself but 2000 seems an awful lot of money for it. I'd hit eBay or a breakers yard, there are plenty of fuseboxes for sale and they aren't expensive or need any kind of coding as long as they are from the same year and model (diesel or petrol etc) then it's a straight swap out I'm sure. Most things plug in or bolt on. Maybe you'd need an auto spark to do it but I bet you'd get it done for a couple of hundred quid.

If the engine bay actual fusebox has relays in it, which I am honestly not sure about, you could swap the fuse box yourself for a few quid and not pay Citroen 2000 bucks.

Not saying it's a 15 minute job but there is no way I'd pay that amount for Citroen to fix an 09 van, I'd do it myself before I'd spend that with them.

You could probably buy a whole busted van the same year and strip the parts you need, for a fraction of that money. A working van on that year can't be much more than 2000 surely?

I'm not knocking your vehicle mate, but I'd question the validity of spending such a sum on repairing an older van even if you need it badly. You could probably buy another one for that kind of cash and fix the one you have as time allows, then sell it on again.

[Addo_18]

The BSI or body systems interface is the main operational gadget for all things non engine related and the engine ECU does the engine stuff. I know there are relays built into the BSI but it's inside the van, though it does have a lot of fuses in the outer cover for the functions it does, but Citroen know that and they're saying fusebox? If they'd said BSI then the price would make more sense.

The BSI is probably very costly from new via Citroen, not sure about the engine bay fusebox itself but 2000 seems an awful lot of money for it. I'd hit eBay or a breakers yard, there are plenty of fuseboxes for sale and they aren't expensive or need any kind of coding as long as they are from the same year and model (diesel or petrol etc) then it's a straight swap out I'm sure. Most things plug in or bolt on. Maybe you'd need an auto spark to do it but I bet you'd get it done for a couple of hundred quid.

If the engine bay actual fusebox has relays in it, which I am honestly not sure about, you could swap the fuse box yourself for a few quid and not pay Citroen 2000 bucks.

Not saying it's a 15 minute job but there is no way I'd pay that amount for Citroen to fix an 09 van, I'd do it myself before I'd spend that with them.

You could probably buy a whole busted van the same year and strip the parts you need, for a fraction of that money. A working van on that year can't be  much more than 2000 surely?

I'm not knocking your vehicle mate, but I'd question the validity of spending such a sum on repairing an older van even if you need it badly. You could probably buy another one for that kind of cash and fix the one you have as time allows, then sell it on again.

Hiya, I’m new here (registered this morning no less!) so please excuse any breaches of etiquette, but I’m experiencing something very similar to OP.
What started as a duff battery, and a botched jump start courtesy of my father-in-law, has had me rummaging round, scratching my head and cursing for the elusive “R8 Starter Relay”.
I am a very long way from being a mechanic and this is the first vehicle I’ve tried to work on really, which is clearly not going well ?
My fuse box doesn’t have any relays in it - at all - is this normal?? ?
Their absence leads me to suspect that the previous owner had a similar problem and had replaced the fuse box himself with the ‘wrong’ one before selling it.
The only 2 relays I’ve managed to find are R1 and R2, in a separate little box beside the passenger side headlight.
Yet I can clearly hear clicking coming from the area of the engine bay fuse box when I try to turn her over.
She now has a new battery so all the lights come on around the dash, and the hazards etc. come on, but there’s still nothing besides the clicking sound, and she would neither bump nor jump start when I was trying to get her home.
The bloke from Halfords said it was all sounding like a simple case of a busted battery, but couldn’t understand why it still wouldn’t start, until I mentioned the cables being backwards when it was jump started, then said it was probably the relay that was inhibiting her from turning over.
So, in a very circuitous way, what I’m asking is: do I need to replace the fuse board as a whole in order to replace the broken relay…?
I would deeply appreciate any insight that might offered, as I’m running out of ideas for places to look ?

[brodfather11]

I think your engine compartment fuse box is a two storey one with the relays underneath the top layer of fuses. The top lifts out and there they will be.

I'm sure ZION will be along soon to confirm it or not.

The clicking can indicate a flat battery or dodgy starter motor or solenoid

[Sol]

@Addo_18 - what year and engine is your van?

I'll look into Service-Box and see what there is available on the relays. In Haynes even for the B9 (2008-2018) there is no location for the relay R8 but I can perhaps find it in SB if you reply with the info above.

Reverse jumper cables can blow fuses, this is more likely. As Brodfather11 says, the fusebox is normally two level and the top layer can be removed - though some models came from the factory with the top layer rivetted in place - this needs them drilled out carefully before the top can be prized off to reveal large fuses below called MF (MasterFuses) and there may indeed be some relays.

I'll do some digging while I wait on you responding.

[Sol]

Quick update, R8 is indeed shown as being inside PSF1, the engine bay fusebox. There is a fuse F8 which is "Starter Relay" on the same fusebox. This powers the circuit going to the starter relay R8 contacts, and from there on to the starter solenoid terminal.

If it were me, I would get a meter and test out the continuity of every link fuse on the front of the battery connector unit, then the MF fuses under the engine bay fusebox top tray, and finally all of the ones on the fusebox itself as you can almost guarantee one of the main ones is blown, but if you find F8 then it leads to R8 - which will still click if F8 is blown, that fuse goes through the contacts of R8 to feed the starter solenoid so is not involved in the relay triggering if you get my drift. So if it clicks but no starter activity, then make sure F8 is not blown, that could be all it is.

I've attached the fuse layout of PSF1 engine bay fuses. F8 is marked. 

   

[Addo_18]

I think your engine compartment fuse box is a two storey one with the relays underneath the top layer of fuses. The top lifts out and there they will be.

I'm sure ZION will be along soon to confirm it or not.

The clicking can indicate a flat battery or dodgy starter motor or solenoid

I did wonder that! I did have it out at one point, and tried to peer underneath but was worried I’d hamfistedly yank out the cables trying to see, so I’ll give that another go later ??

I was going to look into the starter and solenoid if it still isn’t playing ball after tackling the relay, I’m hoping it doesn’t come to that ?
Thank you for the prompt reply!

[Sol]

I think your engine compartment fuse box is a two storey one with the relays underneath the top layer of fuses. The top lifts out and there they will be.

I'm sure ZION will be along soon to confirm it or not.

The clicking can indicate a flat battery or dodgy starter motor or solenoid

I did wonder that! I did have it out at one point, and tried to peer underneath but was worried I’d hamfistedly yank out the cables trying to see, so I’ll give that another go later ??

I was going to look into the starter and solenoid if it still isn’t playing ball after tackling the relay, I’m hoping it doesn’t come to that ?
Thank you for the prompt reply!

Did you see the two posts above...

[Addo_18]

Quick update, R8 is indeed shown as being inside PSF1, the engine bay fusebox. There is a fuse F8 which is "Starter Relay" on the same fusebox. This powers the circuit going to the starter relay R8 contacts, and from there on to the starter solenoid terminal.

If it were me, I would get a meter and test out the continuity of every link fuse on the front of the battery connector unit, then the MF fuses under the engine bay fusebox top tray, and finally all of the ones on the fusebox itself as you can almost guarantee one of the main ones is blown, but if you find F8 then it leads to R8 - which will still click if F8 is blown, that fuse goes through the contacts of R8 to feed the starter solenoid so is not involved in the relay triggering if you get my drift. So if it clicks but no starter activity, then make sure F8 is not blown, that could be all it is.

I've attached the fuse layout of PSF1 engine bay fuses. F8 is marked. 

This is brilliant information, thank you so much, I’m sorry for the late response; I was trying to get signal on site on my lunch break and my battery died!
But that is great, thank you both 
In which case: I’ll check the fuse first, then try lifting the top layer of the fuse box out to get a look underneath for the relay, and try swapping that.
If that doesn’t cut it, I’m into getting a whole new fuse board, have I understood properly??

[Sol]

It's worth checking the fuse, the relay and the wire between the relay and the starters solenoid terminal, it's the small wire on the starter. If that gets 12v while trying to start, then the starter solenoid is likely blown. Worth remembering relay coils have diodes across them in reverse to protect the BSI outputs from backlash that comes from a coil when it loses power or is switched off...which means they blow fuses like a short circuit if the power is reversed, which is likely what happens to yours.

But each part of that circuit needs verified, before throwing parts at it which may not resolve the issue.

You could well have blown the BSI with the leads reversed. What year and engine is your vehicle?