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Stalling
#1
New here Smile ! Seeking help/info on a problem with my van.  It's a 57 plate 1.6 HDI. For some weeks now had a problem with it stalling. I had intermittent problems with speedo not working with slight reduction in power when it did that but  power would come back when speedo started working again! Had speed sensor replaced and that resolved that issue but it still kept stalling.

Broke down good and proper and ended up having the van recovered and taken to garage. Diagnostics said crank sensor had failed. When they went to replace that they found water pump leak so ended up having that replaced and new timing belt. Picked van up and  after driving about 25 miles it stalled again and over the 40 or so miles it took to get home it again stalled twice. Each time took a bit of starting but it did eventually. Took it back to garage and they replaced seals on injectors. They suggested they keep it and one of their mechanics used it to drive home to see if it was fixed but..... He drove about 10 miles and it stalled! They are keeping it at the moment but can't find the problem and they are mystified. They again did diagnostics to see if anything was in the memory but nothing at all came up. They have done a 'wiggle' test on the wiring and nothing shows up. The odd thing is that it will run for days sometimes and then it starts to stall again. Just to add... the engine had a complete makeover just 50k miles ago. Any suggestions please. I have spent a lot of money on it and can't afford to replace it and at the stage where I have spent so much I may as well keep going lol! [Image: rolleyes.png]
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#2
By 'stalling' do you mean the engine cuts out while you're driving along, or at junctions etc when you've pulled to a stop? I suggest that you get some monitoring hardware / software to record various parameters while driving. A cheap & easy but perfectly suitable option is an Android phone with the Torque app & an OBD reader. Slightly more expensive is a Laptop & Lexia / Diagbox.
Parameters like boost, common rail pressure, airflow come to mind.
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#3
Hi Betty,

The next thing that springs to mind, is the fuel pressure sensor / regulator on the fuel rail behind the engine. It's in an awkward place, no doubt about that, but well worth checking or replacing with a donor unit - they aren't too expensive, £35? (guesswork) - if the garage have the means, they can measure fuel pressure and this will show what is going on. Though, they would have to be measuring when it stalled to see if it drops to a low or zero value then the engine shuts down. Normally, the fuel rail remains pressurised between starts but if the FPR fails, the engine can use up the fuel and the pressure drops to zero as it stalls.

(The crank sensor would have been number one choice, especially if it only stalled when hot, but as they've done that it can be assumed to be good.)

My third choice for stalling, is the MAF (airflow meter) which can be tested simply by unplugging it and driving around.

If it is bad, it (ECU) will assume a default value for airflow and will stop stalling and behave itself. (you may get a fault light with it disconnected but this will clear when reconnected again) - These are not so cheap, cleaning is a myth (never works) and a used unit is an unknown but always worth a try from a previously known-running breaker.

Default airflow with the MAF disconnected is 400mg at idle, with a working one is around 380-420 but it's hard to diagnose a bad one without just unplugging it and seeing if the stalling goes away.

Finally, there is a butterfly unit called a Doser (or Doseur in French) to the left of the engine cover as you look at the engine, it controls airflow between turbo > intercooler > intake, and the EGR flow > intake. It can stick shut or close the wrong side off when faulty, and this will cause a shudder to a halt. It is also used as an anti-shudder valve on shutting down the engine as it can choke off all airflow when required to. It could be doing this by itself at the wrong time. They can and do go wrong on all PSA Doeser-equipped cars, so much so that PSA have stopped fitting them to later HDi motors. Yours (and your EGR) may be gunged up with sticky carbon deposits and causing running issues.
My Van: 2012 B9 1.6 HDi Enterprise
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#4
Thanks for your advice! Will relay this to the garage. Someone did suggest to me that air flow meter but your comments will give them some idea hopefully  Smile
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#5
(22-10-2020, 01:18 PM)cancunia Wrote:  By 'stalling' do you mean the engine cuts out while you're driving along, or at junctions etc when you've pulled to a stop? I suggest that you get some monitoring hardware / software to record various parameters while driving. A cheap & easy but perfectly suitable option is an Android phone with the Torque app & an OBD reader. Slightly more expensive is a Laptop & Lexia / Diagbox.
Parameters like boost, common rail pressure, airflow come to mind.

To start with it was stalling when in motion which was very scary Confused Now it seems to stall when stopping at junctions/traffic light etc.
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#6
Sorry Cancunia, our posts crossed but both minds on the same page!

Betty, did it start straight away after stalling, or did it take a lot of cranking before it fires up after a stall?

If it starts again straight away, could well be the MAF

If it only starts after a bit of "duh-duh-duh-duh" type cranking on the key, I'd look at Fuel Pressure Regulator etc

If it refuses to start at all for quite some time after a stall, I'd be inclined to check the Y shaped Doser valve inside for carbon build up / EGR clogged. Doser valve image attached for info..pic1 to help locate it, pic2 for the unit itself (yours may be slightly different from pic 2 - just a generic PSA doser image). You won't be able to check it yourself, its awkward to remove.


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My Van: 2012 B9 1.6 HDi Enterprise
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to Zion for this post:
  • BettyBerlingo
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#7
(22-10-2020, 01:42 PM)Zion Wrote:  Sorry Cancunia, our posts crossed but both minds on the same page!

Betty, did it start straight away after stalling, or did it take a lot of cranking before it fires up after a stall?

If it starts again straight away, could well be the MAF

If it only starts after a bit of "duh-duh-duh-duh" type cranking on the key, I'd look at Fuel Pressure Regulator etc

If it refuses to start at all for quite some time after a stall, I'd be inclined to check the Y shaped Doser valve inside for carbon build up / EGR clogged. Doser valve image attached for info..pic1 to help locate it, pic2 for the unit itself (yours may be slightly different from pic 2 - just a generic PSA doser image). You won't be able to check it yourself, its awkward to remove.

It takes a few tries to start after stalling. It won't start first try and sometimes I have to wait a few minutes before it does start but not always. Have passed your comments on to garage  Smile
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#8
I now have the van back and running (so far anyway)! Last jobs done were new MAF meter, replaced fuel rail sensor and all connections on ECU cleaned etc. I still don't trust it though as what concerns me is that the garage said there was a lot of carbon build up. This concerns me as the engine had a rebuild 50k miles ago, been regularly serviced and in fact, have oil and filter change every 6k miles which was recommended by the people that rebuilt the engine. What would cause this so early on in the life of this engine? Wondering if the MAF or fuel rail sensor has been malfunctioning for a good while or is it that there is something fundamentally wrong with the engine? In total, the vehicle has only done 127k miles. I had to have the engine overhauled as in the first 14 months I had the van I had 4 turbos!!!! When stripped down they said they hadn't seen such a dirty engine in a long time. Garage said that it had obviously not been looked after at all from new. It was a mess basically. This is why I had the engine overhauled/reconditioned. Any ideas please?
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#9
I haven't tried it but I was researching decarbonising last month. Some hits from my browsing history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiViPKIoG68
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkUq5mp2plc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIycEyNci1o
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/1...t-worth-it

https://carbon-cleaning.co.uk/
https://www.terraclean.co.uk/
https://www.hydro-flow.co.uk/
Current: 2003 1.4i MS MPV - Lucifer Red
Prev: 2003 1.6 MS Desire - Bile Blue
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#10
(15-11-2020, 10:08 PM)Rasputin Wrote:  I haven't tried it but I was researching decarbonising last month. Some hits from my browsing history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiViPKIoG68
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkUq5mp2plc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIycEyNci1o
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/1...t-worth-it

https://carbon-cleaning.co.uk/
https://www.terraclean.co.uk/
https://www.hydro-flow.co.uk/

Thank you. Will take a look  Smile
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