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adding CC stalk to com2000
#11
Ok mate sorry, to clear up confusion on what I said - all cc stalks with limiter, or without limiter, of the same vintage and from any model of PSA vehicle are the same as each other...they use the same part(s) across the range. I mean all limiter ones are the same as each other, and all non limiter ones are the same as each other.

1. Limiter stalks need the limiter pedal to work fully, it is stamped L V V D standing for Limite Vitesse Voluntaire Droite or voluntary speed limit RHD...

2. Non limiter stalks only need the D pedal (Droite)

but in your case with the 1.4 petrol we are hoping your BSI (and ECU) knows what to do with a cc stalk once programmed and a TPS pedal - never tried that combo.

Cc stalk - the point was stay away from Chinese copies, and genuine ones will be suitable no matter which vehicle they came from, and if you don't have the correct pedal (you don't) for the speed limiter function, then you can't use that function.

It makes the stalk harder to use too even though cruise will technically still work, as it has no off position on the rotary switch "ends", but Cruise or Limit with "off" being the centre position ..so you'd be fiddling with it while driving to prevent going onto the "limit" position instead of confidently switching cruise off when required. These stalks may (not tried) throw an EML if limit is selected while driving.

B. Your wiper stalk is not suitable for the cotton bud trick, it only has the rear wiper switch on the end. If you want that function, you'll need a replacement comm unit...... of the same vintage.....that supports the onboard computer function. If it was me I'd buy a used one off eBay after confirming with the seller that it has such a button on the end for the onboard trip computer....after all it only shows remaining fuel and average mpg/speed, nothing else so doesn't make that comm unit more valuable.
My Van: 2012 B9 1.6 HDi Enterprise
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to Zion for this post:
  • Rasputin
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#12
(24-10-2020, 09:41 PM)Rasputin Wrote:  Just to confirm, the end cap is not a separate moulding and cannot be removed by itself, and must therefore be different to what others have reported in thread on upgrading to a 3-line MFD. They say that you can pop the end cap off and put a cotton bud stalk into the end of the wiper stalk, and then pressing it operates the trip function of the 3-line display without the need for a stalk with a proper end button as its cap. Not in my case.

If anyone's reading who has done the cotton bud trick, does my stalk look like yours or not?

Sorry for the edit above, just wanted to answer that particular point.

Thanks for posting the pictures, it's the first stalk that I've seen without an end cap that can be popped off, but IIRC there's a thread somewhere on the Peugeot forum about this, I'll have a look for it today. My first M59 had a 2 line display, I bought a 3 line display, popped off the end cap & did the cotton bud trick before getting a spring loaded end cap.

I can't be certain about this, but I think the Trip Computer functionality is in the display and on some vehicles, this needs to be activated via Lexia. I think this is the case because if you look inside the display, there's a lot more circuitry than is needed to light some bulbs & one 3 line display that I bought did not work as a Trip Computer, although others did


Edit:

https://www.peugeotforums.com/threads/ho...post-24671

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY-Zg6MHLfE

From the above, it looks like the smaller display will show the Trip Computer functions, also seems to confirm my thoughts about the functionality being in the display.
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to cancunia for this post:
  • Rasputin
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#13
Interim reply; once again, thankyou all for the very helpful and detailed replies. I like the "we are hoping your..." - so I'm not alone after all! If all goes okay with my 1.4, then perhaps we can sign up another guinea pig with a different model, and eventually get through all of them.

I have read the Peugeot thread and watched the vid; some new insights and queries arise - I think I completely misunderstood what the cotton bud trick actually does. I need to mull them over for a bit (zzzz) so will be back later.

Only a short run today... one drop to a shop in Surbiton. Amazing that a small high street shop sells so much stuff that it has three deliveries a week, each one a full 45-foot trailer's worth (35 cages and 6 pallets today). Doesn't look anything like The Good Life - they must have filmed it somewhere else. Not a pig or chicken or goat anywhere.
Current: 2003 1.4i MS MPV - Lucifer Red
Prev: 2003 1.6 MS Desire - Bile Blue
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#14
(24-10-2020, 07:44 PM)Thisisnotaspoon Wrote:  For someone who has little or no idea what all these part/serial numbers mean, is it as simple as adding the stalk from a scrap car?

I'm planning to do a LOT of motorway miles over the winter so it'd be nice to have if it was that easy!

Sorry Thisisnotaspoon, I was too tired yesterday to take in what you were actually asking.

Unfortunately it is not quite that simple; a few other bits are needed as well, and some Berlingos are not adaptable (see below). But if it works on your car, then 1 it will be a lot cheaper than an aftermarket kit mainly because it uses your own car's brains instead, and 2 it will look like original equipment because the CC stalk will match your other stalks, and the display of CC settings will be via your car's instrument cluster.

My research is ongoing, but so far this is a rough idea what's needed. I thought it worth posting as a first step towards a how-to guide for future forum visitors.

It mostly comes from advice given by others more eminent than myself in other posts. Each step is followed by a rough costing, and is explained further below.

  1. Your Berlingo must have drive-by-wire. Without it, CC is not practical
    (DBW conversion kits cost hundreds)
  2. You need to add a CC stalk to your steering column
    (should be easy; OEM stalks are £10 upwards online from breakers)
  3. You need to add switches/sensors to your gas and brake pedals
    (cost is similar to the CC stalk; installation I have not  looked into yet)
  4. You probably need to replace your instrument cluster for a different one
    (cost maybe £30 upwards, very simple to swap over)
  5. Lastly, you will need Lexia/Diagbox (along with a basic laptop and an OBD reader)
    (or you need to make friends with someone who has it)
    to tell your car to turn its CC functions on (see other threads about Lexia/Diagbox)
Others, please correct if needed, ta.

Drive-by-wire.
There are, it seems, three variants: full DBW, cable only from throttle to engine, and a hybrid of the two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRueKJ25tng

If your throttle cable goes all the way to your engine, you're out of luck.
My car has a hybrid system - see this post:
https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-20015.html
So I can have CC but can't have speed limiter.

CC stalk.
They are easy to find online (Citroen/Peugeot are swappable), and just plug in (you may need to cut an opening for it in your lower steering column shroud). There are two types, with or without speed limiter controls. The advice given STRONGLY by others is to only buy OEM and avoid new Chinese knock-offs, and also that ones with speed limiter probably won't work with a hybrid DBW setup - see recent posts in this thread.

You plug it into the lump behind your steering wheel which has the other stalks in it; this is called a com2000. There are many slightly different versions and I was worried that the one in my car was not suitable. In which case, I would have to take my steering wheel off in order to swap it for another one. But on investigation, I found that my humble little 1.4 unexpectedly does have a socket for a CC stalk, and others suggest that most or all com2000s do. See the start of this thread for more on that.

Pedal switches.
Not investigated yet though some advice already given by others. Try searching the forum?

Instrument cluster.
The most common type only has dials and lights, so it cannot display CC setting data. These have a water temp pointer in the right-hand dial. What you need is one which has a small square LCD panel there instead, and a water temp gauge under the rev counter.

   
photo c/o saskak, who gives the model numbers for these clusters here:
https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-161...#pid103876

Clusters are not a lot of money and are very easy to swap over, just pull the cover off, undo one screw and unplug one plug. Then refiiting is the reverse of this.

Trouble is, as you will see saskak explaining, that most or all of the ones available only have KMH speedometers not MPH. Finding an MPH one is probably impossible, so what others have done is to modify a KMH one.

This is a 2-step process: replacing the printed sheet behind the pointers so that it shows MPH, and changing some settings in an on-board memory chip so that the odometer displays miles not km, and to lower (if needed) its internally stored total miles clocked up value to one lower than what your car has actually done, or your car will adopt the higher mileage from the cluster when you install it.
Diagbox.
Once all the above is done, you then need to tell your car it has CC capabilities:
https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-200...#pid126374

One point to note however, these guides assume a B9 - I have not yet seen guides on doing it to an M59 and it seems that is an unknown at the moment. I am slowly working my way towards installing all the bits, still stuck on finding out which bits exactly to install, and then I will have a go at changing my M59's settings.

Watch this space!
Current: 2003 1.4i MS MPV - Lucifer Red
Prev: 2003 1.6 MS Desire - Bile Blue
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#15
(25-10-2020, 05:35 AM)Zion Wrote:  Ok mate sorry, to clear up confusion on what I said - all cc stalks with limiter, or without limiter, of the same vintage and from any model of PSA vehicle are the same as each other...they use the same part(s) across the range. I mean all limiter ones are the same as each other, and all non limiter ones are the same as each other.

1. Limiter stalks need the limiter pedal to work fully, it is stamped L V V D standing for Limite Vitesse Voluntaire Droite or voluntary speed limit RHD...

2. Non limiter stalks only need the D pedal (Droite)

but in your case with the 1.4 petrol we are hoping your BSI (and ECU) knows what to do with a cc stalk once programmed and a TPS pedal - never tried that combo.

Cc stalk - the point was stay away from Chinese copies, and genuine ones will be suitable no matter which vehicle they came from, and if you don't have the correct pedal (you don't) for the speed limiter function, then you can't use that function.

It makes the stalk harder to use too even though cruise will technically still work, as it has no off position on the rotary switch "ends", but Cruise or Limit with "off" being the centre position ..so you'd be fiddling with it while driving to prevent going onto the "limit" position instead of confidently switching cruise off when required. These stalks may (not tried) throw an EML if limit is selected while driving.

B. Your wiper stalk is not suitable for the cotton bud trick, it only has the rear wiper switch on the end. If you want that function, you'll need a replacement comm unit...... of the same vintage.....that supports the onboard computer function. If it was me I'd buy a used one off eBay after confirming with the seller that it has such a button on the end for the onboard trip computer....after all it only shows remaining fuel and average mpg/speed, nothing else so doesn't make that comm unit more valuable.
Thankyou Zion for the clarification - I think I'll look for a Berlingo with different pedals next time!

As you say, it seems doing this with a 1.4 M59 seems a first-time; I just hope that once I've managed to install all the bits Diagbox plays ball! If I were to get it running sooner, could I scroll through the M59 options just to see if the CC options are there?

I fully understand your point about the CC stalk wheel. Fiddling with the one I have makes your advice very sage - the click stops are almost nonexistent and it's very easy to turn it too far.

I may end up buying a cheap comm unit just to open it up and find out what it's all about (probably not much more than a box which various things bolt onto?) - but as for the wiper stalk woes, there may be new light at the end of the stalk - sorry - tunnel... next post...
Current: 2003 1.4i MS MPV - Lucifer Red
Prev: 2003 1.6 MS Desire - Bile Blue
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#16
I would get DiagBox working and see what options appear for you. Plug the stalk in and see if you can enable it? You can always turn it off again.

And the pedal switches are not mysterious, it's just you need a brake pedal switch and clutch switch so the ECU knows you've braked or pressed the clutch, so it deactivates the cruise throttle control.

All cars have the brake switch (it lights the brake lamps) so just have to check the clutch pedal. DiagBox can test that easily.
My Van: 2012 B9 1.6 HDi Enterprise
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#17
(25-10-2020, 07:39 AM)cancunia Wrote:  
(24-10-2020, 09:41 PM)Rasputin Wrote:  If anyone's reading who has done the cotton bud trick, does my stalk look like yours or not?

Sorry for the edit above, just wanted to answer that particular point.

Thanks for posting the pictures, it's the first stalk that I've seen without an end cap that can be popped off...

I can't be certain about this, but I think the Trip Computer functionality is in the  display and on some vehicles, this needs to be activated via Lexia...

Edit:

https://www.peugeotforums.com/threads/ho...post-24671

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY-Zg6MHLfE

No need to apologise for editing - I often wonder just how much electricity is used up by all those emails flying around the globe which needlessly quote others in full!

Yes, the 3-line display does need to be programmed, both for its trip meter function and for the external temp sensor (which I have standing by). Other forums have explained the process.

Thankyou very much for the links - the thread was useful and the video an eye-opener.

From various earlier threads on the cotton bud trick I had assumed that it poked all the way through the end cap to push something at the level of the circular pcb track inside the main part of the stalk - but when the chap in this video presses his end button (at about 0:24) you can see it moving a copper contact inside the end cap so that that would make contact with that pcb track if the cap was on the stalk. This must only need a short bit of cotton bud stalk then. A revelation to me!

Does this interpretation sound correct?

Now, with that in mind, I had a close look at the pcb track inside the vlogger's stalk and compared it to mine. I don't think there's any difference:

   

Logically therefore, all I really need is a different end cap... unless my stalk only having rear wiper control remains an issue?

Next, a comparison of the insides of his and my end caps:


   

  1. My end cap, with no end button
  2. The end cap he replaced, with no button
  3. His replacement end cap with a button
So I would need a copper track as well as a cotton bud for that trick to work for me. I suspect therefore that several end caps with that copper track and designed for a working end button were made but fitted with 'dead' end buttons; that may have been more efficient in production than the completely dumb end cap I have. That surprises me but there we have it, it seems.

Now, bearing in mind that all I am missing in terms of electrical control is a copper contact, but the pcb track it makes contact with seems to be present and correct, one post in that Peugeot forum proved particularly interesting:

Quote:Looking at the pcb, im presuming the inner contact is either gnd or 5v (guessing at the mo) and the lower small contacts are for the wiper bits on the rotation of the stalk end, and the long contact top right is the contact for the trip display etc, so by this and from watching your video the push button bit simply makes the connection from the middle contact to the upper right contact which would mean that a simple push button could be made into the standard non push button end where at the end you could simply put a metal pin/plate which when pressed would create the circuit... ...and possibly drill a small hole in the end to fit my own push button until I get round to getting a proper end stalk with button."

(My edits - more likely 12v than 5v though.)

In a later post:

Quote:"...the test would simply be to bridge the circuit with a screwdriver or something metal to simulate the press of the 'real' button etc."

https://www.peugeotforums.com/threads/ho...post-74866

It's just a shame I don't already have my 3-line MFD installed so I could try this.

I wonder, would someone who has a 3-line display and a wiper stalk with button be willing to try popping the cap off and bridging these tracks, to see if that does operate the onboard computer? Just so long as you're happy doing so won't cause any damage, of course.

We may almost have the answer to this riddle!

As for sourcing the part, I did find slightly cheaper ones from breakers, and the Peugeot forum's DIY pushbutton trick or the cotton bud trick would be even cheaper, though for a nicer finish (if that's important) this seems to be the jobby:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124389588723

It even comes with "Option Ordinateur de Bord". Indeed!

So I was right in guessing earlier that "on-board computer" refers to the presence of an end button.

However, for not much more I could get one with a com2000 attached to it to play with...
Current: 2003 1.4i MS MPV - Lucifer Red
Prev: 2003 1.6 MS Desire - Bile Blue
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#18
(25-10-2020, 10:14 PM)Zion Wrote:  All cars have the brake switch (it lights the brake lamps)

Ah - oh - another eye opener! I could only find that sort of brake pedal switch and assumed I was searching wrongly!

One less job to do now!

The clutch pedal switch I've ordered is https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233747704586 - no doubt I've bought wrongly yet again!

OEM references CITROEN/PEUGEOT 218920, 218924, 9652843480, 9663928380



Cheers.
Current: 2003 1.4i MS MPV - Lucifer Red
Prev: 2003 1.6 MS Desire - Bile Blue
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#19
It looks like the guy has pulled off another "dumb" end cap and pulled out the contact for the wiper rotation, then stuck it in place in the other "dumb" cap to create the end button for the trip computer. Not clear what the cotton bud does though...or where he stuck it :OO
My Van: 2012 B9 1.6 HDi Enterprise
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#20
As I understand things re wiper stalks, there are 2 main designs:
1, With a pop-off cap that can be replaced with a spring loaded cap. This is the type that the cotton bud trick works with.
2, Without a pop off cap, you have to replace the whole stalk end, as per the video.

I've only ever had the first type, it looks like you have the second type.
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