Preferred engine oil for Blue HDI

[Harrythephot]

I will be doing regular oil changes on the car, so I've been looking for a good source of compatible oil at less than hideous prices.
Westway seem to be a recommended source of PSA B71 2312 oil

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0W30-C2-Fully...Swz5pdru81

but the PSA spec oil was meant to be low Saps and this one is Mid-Saps.

Another supplier is

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0W-30-Fully-S...SwA~ddcOWn

Any owners familiar with either of these?


As 5w30 is also specced for this engine, is there a reason why any other 5w30 acea C2, low Saps oil, WITHOUT the PSA B71 2312 tag wouldn't be suitable for use with regular oil changes?

Reason for asking is that Tesco have their 2l packs of 5w30 at half price, but only for Ford, VW, BMW engines, which I guess would use similar specs anyway.

Thanks in advance

[Pedronicus]

The proper stuff might have hideous prices but is a lot cheaper than a new engine.

[Harrythephot]

The proper stuff might have hideous prices but is a lot cheaper than a new engine.

Okay. 
As expected, though that doomsaying is only valid if the oils in question are of an insufficient quality and not of equal or greater spec.

Cheaper does not necessarily equal inferior, nor does more expensive always deliver more quality.

Just look at the list of the top ten most unreliable cars
 
If ALL of the specs of the oil are the same, including the PSA B71 2312 standard, then AFAICT, there should be no issue at all using oil from either of those two links.

Anyway. After reading the following link, it would appear that while there are small differences, these tested oils mostly perform much the same with the BMW LL-12 performing slightly better than the Total Ineo First, which is the PSA specced oil.

https://www.ato24.de/en/blog/comparison-...s/#anchor1

[Sol]

The spec from Total for a 1.6 blue HDi is Quartz INEO First 0W - 30

Not all crude is the same and not all refinements are the same. I work directly in the oil manufacturing industry and there are many grades of crude with various sulphur levels and more, they are organic compounds with different properties so take varying levels of effort to make into the perfect lubricant. Some people spend a lot of money and effort getting it right. Some say, ah, that will do.

Look here for instance:
https://www.mckinseyenergyinsights.com/r...de-grades/

Anyway, I would stick to the exact oil specified by the OEM if I care about a car, and buy any old stuff if I don't.

It's a choice, dependant on your perception of risk.

It could be said, buy cheap, buy twice. You might only get one shot with a high compression diesel. I'm not saying it will go bang, but I've had a very expensive engine do just that, in a 4 year old £45k Audi and they wriggled out of a claim because the local non dealer garage used the non-specified oil.

What's the difference in cost of the right oil, compared to issues down the line if it goes wrong. If it didn't matter, they wouldn't go to the trouble of getting it right.

Just my opinion if course!

[Brixmis7]

Hi all,

Following this with interest. I found this and I have to agree with Zion.
PSA B71 2312
Peugeot Citroën has developed B71 2312 standard for oils able to endure the most severe thermal constrains along with most modern after treatment systems compatibility. The PSA B71 2312 standard applies to all Peugeot and Citroën vehicles equipped with “BlueHDi” Diesel engines fitted with SCR (Selective Catalyst Reduction) allowing NOx (Nitrous oxides) treatment through the use of AdBlue additive or so-called “diesel exhaust fluid”. The standard also requires improved cold flow properties to reduce hydrodynamic friction of the oil, in order to obtain fuel economy benefits especially when the oil is cold. This extra requirement for cold flow properties allows excellent oil flow at start up, faster oil pressure build up, faster revs raising and faster operating temperature reach. This type of low viscosity lubricant allows fuel consumption reduction and therefore reduces greenhouse gases (CO2) emissions.

[Sol]

@Harrythephot - I'm not knocking your viewpoint btw, if you want to use supermarket oil then it's likely you would have no issues but of course this can't be guaranteed. I understand where you are coming from.

I take the personal view that if I value the car, I'll use the recommended oil as it is only once a year, or twice if you decide to do it more often, and it's always a good idea to do the oil & filter more often than the standard service schedule. If it's an older hack, I just use Asda stuff as I know I'll replace the car if it fails in the future.

I think if you go for a non-recommended anything, the cheapest stuff will often be naff, the dearest stuff will be often be overpriced, so I aim in the middle ground.

Also the best price may be found by searching for the right supplier of the right oil, instead of searching for a cheaper oil. I know people on forums can often seem precious about such issues, and it's not intended to push people away who offer a non-standard viewpoint - I just think people all have different perception of risk or aversion to risk.

[Harrythephot]

I understand the concerns over the supermarket oil.
That was going to be used as a sort of engine flush, as I'm damn sure that the Renault service it received before I bought it, would have used whatever oil they had.

They wouldn't have bought Total Ineo for that one job.

I read the PSA B71 2312 standard, which seems to be nearly identical to that from other manufacturers and even the range of oils has much the same attributes.
I can also get a range of oils that carry the above PSA standard, so If the overwhelming recommendation is to only ever use Total Ineo First, then to what end do other oil manufacturers create an oil to conform to that PSA standard?

[Sol]

No no, if you get an oil that meets the exact standards to the recommended one, I couldn't argue that it's wrong, it should be the same. I think we all meant that just choosing any 0W30 or 5W40 doesn't mean they are the same as another brand, but if you go to the trouble to check all the standards are met then you have done all you can to ensure it's suitable.

[Harrythephot]

Stumbled across a different thread detailing oils for the PSA 1.6hdi engine.
The info from Polar is interesting, as is the info from jj9 on page 2.

https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-18746.html

[GraemeT]

Strikes me that the HDi is now an 'old skool' engine that, over the years, has had various extra bits bolted onto the arse end to try and meet more exacting emission standards which, in turn, mean changing the oil specs. e.g on page 2 of your linked discussion - PSA had to move to a 'low ash/low SAPS' oil once they fitted a DPF to the cars otherwise when they immolated the crud in the DPF with the EOLYS system then a high ash residue oil would start to block the DPF.

So the PSA B71 2312 gets 'invented'.

Stick your car into OPIE OILS and see what it chucks up as spec possibilities  - for mine I get:

ACEA C2
API SN, CF
PSA B71 2312
Fiat 9.55535-GS1, 9.55535-DS1
BMW Longlife 12FE

ACEA C2 is what your Ebay link goes to. My 'Berlingo' is actually a MINI so is drinking BMW Longlife 12 FE. Just so happens there's a PSA 110 HDi engine under the bonnet but seeing as it's a Mini means you cannot have a nasty, French 'spec' but, instead a German one. 

I guess I'm saying just go for the ACEA spec that matches your car (C2 maybe C3?) Millers, Mannol, Hyperlube, Morris Oils and QX (Eurocarparts) I've used in the last decade and nothing has blown up or seized solid. I'd chuck supermarket stuff in there if it met the spec too.

No comment on the 0W30 or thicker debate other than I usually go for a 5W40 simply as I'm old fashioned (brought up on 15W40 and thicker gloop) so don't trust skinny things in the higher mileage cars I run. I did use 5W30 in the Mini the other week and it's a bit more 'tappety' on startup but then that may be due to a combination of gravity and only getting out once a week on the COVID supplies run.
Guessing ten years before that one hits the 20,000 mile oil change in the book. I just change it every 12 months/6000 miles or so in all the vehicles - again that's just force of habit.

As to price? Mid range - there's a point of diminishing returns in most things which is entirely applicable to engine oil.
Counter argument is that the £20 extra for 5 litres of Total over 12 months is not that much really for peace of mind if that's what you're after).

(p.s. as to specs -
PSA will always spec a Total oil;
Renault will spec an ELF oil.
Mini will spec a BMW oil.
National loyalties & all that.
Just sayin')