02 turns and turns and turns, revs and dies

[Guyt]

The Berlingo is new to me but appears to have been well maintained and looked after.  2002 1.9 diesel 57k, fsh, cam belt etc all done.  ...... this is a bit long but I feel the more information the better.

I bought the car about 3 weeks ago, the seller was straight up and all seemed fine.  We had a bit of a cold snap and it dropped below freezing and I couldn’t start the van (seemingly a common problem, turns and turns and turns and eventually fired and all was fine, she ran for a couple of weeks no problem, starting first time every time).

This week I have moved the van 8 or 9 times back and forth, literally 5m and then shut it down, so no recharging of the battery and then yesterday didn’t start.  

I charged the battery the van turned and turned and turned but nothing, again turned and turned and turned (much like when freezing cold) and again nothing and then fired up.  I revved the engine and all seemed good and let it sit too idle and I noted the revs seem to start to climb slightly and then she died.  Tried to start again and nothing.

Battery out and recharged and the same problem again today, turn, turn, turn, nothing - rinse and repeat and then she fired up and I hit the gas and all good but this time I didn’t return to idle and she died.  I tried to restart and EVERYTHING is trying to fire but it just won’t and then it sort of fires but doesn’t and basically she won’t start, battery is back on charge and tomorrow I shall try a full battery along with a jump start but I really don’t think it’s the battery's

I’m not mechanical and I’m new to the Berlingo but everything is trying to work.  For those who have experienced the ‘below freezing’ starting experience it is just like that but doesn’t start, or did and then dies, or did, then revs rise and dies.    I’m not mechanical and will happily take it to the garage once I can get her started but she just won’t go, we’ve had a fair bit of rain this week and could this be a problem?  I know this sounds ridiculous but should I try and dry the engine bay a little with a heat gun (And yes I’d be super gentle/careful etc).

Overall the van is brilliant but if she won’t start is a bit useless.  I envisage when it’s really cold putting a blanket in the engine bay but how do I avoid the damp?  I am in the UK after all.

Any help appreciated 

Cheers
Guy

[bikerbaker]

Not an expert by any means but I did have a similar problem years ago with a ZX Volcane TD with water in the fuel. That had been left a long time with very little fuel in it and the problem was apparently condensation. The "cure" was getting it running eventually and filling it up and a couple of long runs. Not a lot of help if it refuses to start.

I wouldn't p about with a hot air gun though as think the heat is too local. If you can put a fan heater underneath at the front so it blows up and around the engine bay and leave it running for a long time it might dry out any moisture a bit. Had to do this in the past to solve waxing problems on a Land Rover and also a Ford Corsair V4 in the very dim distant past.

Good luck!

[jimbo]

might be air getting into the fuel line . my 1.9 has a clear fuel pipe if yours is the same you may see some bubbles. there is a manual fuel pump on the fuel filter on mine you could try pumping that. I think not starting when its really cold could be the valve clearance but I am no expert.

[Sol]

It does sound like intermittent fuel as per air in the lines or as said earlier, water in the diesel. For water, when it sits for a while the fuel floats and you get only water in the lines. If you rock the van from side to side strongly for a minute, the diesel and water will emulsify for a while and it may well start and run if it's water in the tank. When it sits again, back to square one.

You can disconnect the bulb at the outlet end and use it to pump some of the tank contents I to a clear jug then let it sit, see if it separates out to fuel and water.

Or Syphon some of the tank into a white or clear container and see what comes out. Diesel has a bluish-yellow tinge and very oily to the touch.

[brodfather11]

there should be a drain for the fuel filter, it sits at the bottom with a short plastic pipe on it, drain some off and check as Zion suggests

[Guyt]

First things first thanks for everyone’s input.

I believe I have a combination of air/water in the fuel and a (emabrassingly) lack of fuel.

I started with the easiest thing (not being mechanical) and rocked the van for a while but no joy.  I then went a bit mad and looked at how to remove the fuel tank and was about to ask how I do this as I think the fuel tank needs to be dried/drained......

While coming back here I read the comment re the clear fuel lines and after some searching found where the fuel filter is and found the aforementioned clear pipe and (Impressively for me) found the fuel pump primer button, or at least that what it seems to be as i could see lots of air bubbles and some liquid coming through when I depress the button.  I did this repeatedly.

I’m still not starting but I do believe this could primarily be down to a lack of fuel!!   When I press the fuel priming button there seems to be nothing coming through when looking through the clear pipe.  The van is currently leaning from right to left (Drivers side to passenger) on a slight slope and it appears that the fuel pump is on the fuel tank? and this is also offset to the drivers side?meaning a combination of a lack of fuel and the slope is preventing any fuel getting pulled through.  

If this is as simple as a lack of fuel I think the moral of the story will be to not let the tank go below a quarter full.  I better go and get some fuel.  

As a last question does anyone have any suggestions of how to remove any moisture from the fuel tank, if this is an additional factor or would I be best to put as much fuel in as possible (A Jerry can) rock to mix the diesel and water and hope she starts?

Thank you for everyone’s help and input, it is very much appreciated

[Sol]

The only way to get rid of water in the tank is to syphon it all out and replace with good fuel, moisture as such is always going to collect but it isn't that much of an issue except when we're talking about proper liquid water - usually if you put old diesel in that has been laying around in a drum, or the fuel cap was missing for a long time, water can get in and cause issues.

I would get a big jerry can of diesel as you suggest, put it in, then prime like you're priming for Britain and the Olympics in the Priming Finals lol until all bubbles disappear and the lines and filter are purged of air. There should be a bulb (rubber grenade shaped thing) on the front of the engine to allow you to prime things pretty well after a few squeezes and see if it will start - then maybe try to park on a more level area if you can or keep the tank topped up a bit more

I had a big slug of water in the fuel on a Mk2 Cavalier diesel many years ago by accepting "free" diesel from an old boy that he said he no longer needed, in a drum in his back garden....BIG mistake on my part (young, skint, free diesel etc) - it was parked up when I got home, and the next morning, no way would it start. My mate towed the b*st*rd thing all round town with no joy and eventually we figured out the fuel the guy had gifted me was part water. After bouncing on the bumper for a bit, it would indeed start after a bit of cranking and I got used to doing the rock/bounce until I could put good stuff in when payday came around (after syphoning the rest of the crappy water/diesel mix out with a hose).

The stuff I syphoned out looked mostly ok till it sat over night in a semi-clear drum, and then I could see the diesel floating on top of the water. Thinking about it now, syphoning when it has been sat still overnight, will pick up the water first as its on the bottom and the fuel is floating, so may be worth a shot to get most of the water out if there is any, then put good fuel in and do the rocking thing each morning before trying to start it until it has a few miles under its belt.

[Gadgetman]

Always keep the tank topped up as much as possible in winter. This minimises the amount of condensation that can build up in the tank.
Aren't there additives to remove water from diesel?

I usually add a little of one for gasoline every time I fill up mine in the winter.

[jj9]

Apart from putting some fuel in it    I would suggest replacing the leak off pipes as these are a common cause of air ingress on the 1.9d engine.

The leak off pipes are the small rubber pipes often cloth covered that link from injector to injector and then return to a port on or beside the diesel fuel pump. These pipes become brittle with age and the ends that connect to the injectors can allow the ingress of air which lets the fuel drain back down the supply pipe and causes poor starting. 

Silicone pipe that is fuel rated is a good choice as a replacement.



.

[bikerbaker]

The only thing I'd add is about parking on a side slope. Apart from the fuel pick up problem that is (I've done it in the past).

It can play havoc with all of the sensors IMO. My car has been used for 3 years by a friend (ex wife actually) as a dog rescue van and has been parked sideways on a steep driveway. It's been 3 years of beeping and flashing for brake fluid/power steering/coolant level. I've  checked the levels frequently and the coolant sensor was changed last year.

I collected the car last week and it was flashing "STOP" occasionally on the way home. It's had new rear wheel cylinders for the MOT as it had one leaking slightly but the fluid level was fine. It now lives back with me on level ground and not had a peep out of it in over 100 miles.