2006 Berlingo 1.9 DW8b LEXIA live data readings retarded/advanced (Please help)

[Sol]

I'm no expert on the 1.9D but from what I can see you can adjust the pump pulley to set the timing.

Have you checked the lift sensor on the injector which has it? This engine is very like the old Audi TDI with the Lucas CAV pump. If you disconnected the lift sensor on the injector that has it, does the engine note change? If not, that could be your problem. Not working, working, not working again.

[Andybuk]

Hi Zion 

Yes it has lift sensor on injector gearbox side and yes unplugging this results in a awful tractor clattering as does if I unplug  tdc and if I unplug advance solenoid  directly 

The injection ecu uses data from tdc sensor and lift sensor to determine how much to advance solenoid in pump

Lexia and manual test confirms they are working correctly to the best of my knowledge 

I suspect it’s a pump timing issue retarded as I previously mentioned

Does anybody have Lexia live data to confirm their advance at idle and demanded requests and actual advance etc

I have a pic of the pump hub is it just a case of undoing bolts and rotating pulley as I see the pin only has one hole to lock into place

If I advance the pump pulley will that show an advance increase in Lexia which is currently 12 degrees idle

I have genuine Citreon workshop books here but none give info on adjusting pump or advance reading etc

Regards

[Sol]

The pin hole will be for when timing the full engine i.e. timing belt time. Basic starting point.

Can't help with live data, my last two Berlingos have been 1.6 HDi engines and I never did much with the first few 1.9Ds I had. Check though, if you have any play in the pump shaft pulley key if you can, that could be another cause of moving timing. I've messed with the fuelling solenoid before on the Audi TDI, folk used to put a switch on it to alter the max fuel, called a Evry mod. It's a voltage divider, but the switch bridges out one side to put the pump on max fuel. Goes like a bloody rocket. Could also be your issue, not hitting correct voltage. Not sure if the PSA pump is the same exactly.

Read this, might help in several ways:

https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?thr...to.257122/

[Sol]

Just a thought, line up No1 cylinder on tdc, nearest the gearbox on french cars (No1 that is) and check it's on compression stroke, not easy that bit I know but one of the two positions where it hits tdc must be compression stroke. Then check the holes in the pump pulley, if the outer hole is ahead of the back hole, in direction of rotation, the pump is retarded. If behind, the pump is advanced. If lined up, it's at factory setting.

[Andybuk]

Evening

Sound like a good way of checking.

Can you or somebody else confirm that by loosening the 3 sprocket bolts on injection pump it can be rotated either way ?

Do you leave locking pin in place or will this prevent you from adjusting

Read another thread below and found to be a quite interesting read although it’s for a tdi vw

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Imagine you are stood at the drivers side wing looking through an see-through wing at the pump pulley with it's three bolts in slots.

When running this pulley spins clockwise.

The main shaft of the pump is held in place using a locking pin - the shank end of a drill or long bolt with threaded section cut off will do the job fine.

With the shaft locked the pulley needs to go anticlockwise (from your point of view through the see through wing)

There is a easy way to achieve this.


With locking pin in, adjust the pulley by comparing the slot size and moving about a mm on the slot, tighten the bolts up and try the engine.

Also if cam belt has be done by a garage and they just timed up the pump using a locking pin there is a very good chance that it will be retarded.

I always advise that when timing with a pin you use a 19mm spanner to pre load the pump main shaft by (gently) turning it clockwise against the locking pin which takes the slop out before you tighten up the three bolts.
Even with a good unworn pump and the correct locking pin, the small amount of slop on the locking pin typically equates to 0.1mm lift on the pump, which may not sound like much but can make all the difference between a engine with less power and poor mpg and an easy starting, willing engine.

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Can anybody confirm that the advance the ecu makes in pump will not change in relation to actual base timing ? Will it know I have advanced pump manually and compensate that by retarding advance solenoid or is it not that clever?

For example if advance is 12 degrees on idle and it’s max pump advance would be 18 if the base timing was more advanced the pump could also advance to a higher degree say 20 upwards or would it retard it back to 18

Regards

[Sol]

Right from the drawing you posted, the pin locks the pump hub in the start of injection point, ready to compress on No1 injector. Adjusting the pulley via the bolts, determines where the engine is at that point. The pin is still in at this point, removing the pin before it's all locked up will just throw the timing way off.

With the pulley bolts loose, the engine will need adjusted using the crank pulley bolt to move it to the point you want, then preload the pump in the advance direction (opposite to engine rotation direction) to take the slack out sounds right, and tighten up. I don't think the ECU will retard it back, only add a predetermined amount for acceleration needs when you press the throttle.

Saskak or someone who has timed up a 1.9D may come along and know more, but that's how I'd approach a rotary diesel pump timing in general.