[Engine] P1351 wiring and fuel system air ingress

[StueyT]

I know there are a few old threads but I could also do with the pin-out for the glow-plug relay..

SWMBO's car is a B9 Berlingo Multispace VTR 90hp 10-plate with 41K miles. We've owned from 8-months old.

 I fitted a Delphi HDF939 style (motoquip boxed) fuel filter during the summer along with a timing belt (cars 10 years old) , water pump, oil n' air n' pollen filters etc.. With no problems since then.

Yesterday it started on the button as usual from cold and ran for 3-4 seconds cleanly then just stopped. Pumping the bulb bought it back to life and with a 5-6 second crank and it ran fine with all the power (90hp) it ever had.
Although there was no mil lamp illuminated, I dug out a very old code reader and that claimed P1351 and P1351P. I cleared these with the coolent warm the codes did not return.

This morning it started on the button running clean on all 4-pots (0 degrees outside temp) and then stopped after 3-4 seconds so I'm convinced it's not the glowies.
The fuel bulb was soft again so pumped it up and away it went no issues.
The P1351 code had returned and wouldn't clear untill the coolant was warm however Im sure the glowies are not the cause as it starts cleanly on all 4 without issue.

So..
1, - Visually there's no obvious damp leak-offs, the quick-fit pipes are all pushed home and the filter bleed is nipped up. The fuel cooler looks dry and the lines under the car all appear where visable to be in good condition. As the motor factors are closed till tomorrow, is there anywhere else to look or check or is it just gonna be change filter first then wait n see.?

2, - Can anyone post or point me in the right direction for a pin-out for the glow-plug relay, as back probing the relay base, I appear to have 2x plugs 'open circuit' and 2x reading 0.6ohm (assuming the 4x thicker wires are glow-plug wires). I can then decide if I want the greif of changing the plugs or waiting till summer just-in-case of a F/U and head-off.

[Sol]

Try these mate. I can look up stuff on ServiceBox if need be for schematics. But, HDi engines will start even with no glow plugs working, they're not required in a direct injection engine to start it except well below zero coolant temperature. Your problem must be elsewhere. Plus it starts, then cuts out. I'd be wondering about things like fuel pressure, crank sensor, crank / cam sync, hp fuel pump, immobiliser (key losing contact after starting maybe)

But...
Chances are most likely there's something wrong with your fuel system - the rail is pressurised when you start it from the last time it ran, but doesn't get more fuel so it cuts out after emptying the rail. Fuel pump, filter, tank vent drawing the lines down over night perhaps. (If it's blocked then the cooling down will shrink the air above the fuel and create a vacuum, emptying the lines back to the tank but the rail will still be pressurised) hence it starts then cuts out.

[StueyT]

Try these mate. I can look up stuff on ServiceBox if need be for schematics. But, HDi engines will start even with no glow plugs working, they're not required in a direct injection engine to start it except well below zero coolant temperature. Your problem must be elsewhere. Plus it starts, then cuts out. I'd be wondering about things like fuel pressure, crank sensor, crank / cam sync, hp fuel pump, immobiliser (key losing contact after starting maybe)

But...
Chances are most likely there's something wrong with your fuel system - the rail is pressurised when you start it from the last time it ran, but doesn't get more fuel so it cuts out after emptying the rail. Fuel pump, filter, tank vent drawing the lines down over night perhaps. (If it's blocked then the cooling down will shrink the air above the fuel and create a vacuum, emptying the lines back to the tank but the rail will still be pressurised) hence it starts then cuts out.

Cheers for the info.

Is the tank vent ecu controlled on the B9 or is it a 'mechanical' valve/breather?

So, tank vent check tomorrow.. i.e. I'll leave the filler cap off over night.

I hoped somebody was going to say, yeah mate those 'Chinese O-E Delphi filters are wank' or the 'wosname pipe union' always goes tits-up on those 2010 models' or the like..

[Sol]

From what I know, it's a mechanical vent, basically a tube with a filter in it. Have you recently had an over filling event by any chance? I.e. someone kept filling till it blows fuel back out of the filler?

We had someone on here years ago who had overfilled the tank due to a bad cutoff on a filling station pump and it filled the vent tube, soaking the air filter in the tube and blocking it.

Try whipping the cap off when you stop, and see if it starts the next day with no cap on all night, and doesn't cut out. May not work, but rules that out for nowt.

[StueyT]

From what I know, it's a mechanical vent, basically a tube with a filter in it. Have you recently had an over filling event by any chance? I.e. someone kept filling till it blows fuel back out of the filler?

We had someone on here years ago who had overfilled the tank due to a bad cutoff on a filling station pump and it filled the vent tube, soaking the air filter in the tube and blocking it.

Try whipping the cap off when you stop, and see if it starts the next day with no cap on all night, and doesn't cut out. May not work, but rules that out for nowt.

Next morning.. it's not the filler cap....

So change the filter today.... and if it's still fubar tomorrow morning, look to change the fuel lines.!

[saskak]

I have been using the Delphi HDF939 filter for at least 5-6 years now on my M59, changing it once a year and never had a problem. They are not what one would call cheap and cheerful. It could be a bad batch, but I never had a problem with these filters.

[StueyT]

I have been using the Delphi HDF939 filter for at least 5-6 years now on my M59, changing it once a year and never had a problem. They are not what one would call cheap and cheerful. It could be a bad batch, but I never had a problem with these filters.

Agreed, but I've got to start somewhere and it was the last item fitted approx 1k miles ago..

And if its not the filter then it goes back on next service.

[saskak]

I have been using the Delphi HDF939 filter for at least 5-6 years now on my M59, changing it once a year and never had a problem. They are not what one would call cheap and cheerful. It could be a bad batch, but I never had a problem with these filters.

Agreed, but I've got to start somewhere and it was the last item fitted approx 1k miles ago..

And if its not the filter then it goes back on next service.

I would check if the fuel heater element is snapped into place correctly and it is a bit fiddly to put in. It may be slightly off centre and letting a bit of air inside or maybe not, but worth checking.
I also replace the two rubber o-rings every now and then, as they could perish.

[StueyT]

I have been using the Delphi HDF939 filter for at least 5-6 years now on my M59, changing it once a year and never had a problem. They are not what one would call cheap and cheerful. It could be a bad batch, but I never had a problem with these filters.

Agreed, but I've got to start somewhere and it was the last item fitted approx 1k miles ago..

And if its not the filter then it goes back on next service.

I would check if the fuel heater element is snapped into place correctly and it is a bit fiddly to put in. It may be slightly off centre and letting a bit of air inside or maybe not, but worth checking.
I also replace the two rubber o-rings every now and then, as they could perish.

So.. I've wrangled the air box out (wot a bastard) and had a good poke around over the back of the motor and it's dry.. not a smidge of diesel dampness.
Next to refit and replace filter. Good tip about the heater as it may be that now its cold its heated and the o-ring failed /moved.?
Are there o-rings for the female pipe ends or just for the heater.?

[jj9]

Your problem sounds like a classic air leak to me, you can have air leaking in but no diesel leaking out, sounds impossible doesn't it, but believe me it happens.

All of the female connectors will have a small O ring seal in them, these get compressed over the years and once disturbed can often allow air to leak in.
Put a smear of grease on the male part of the connector before assembly as this often helps the O ring to seal, best to renew the O rings if you suspect them.

.