[Engine] permanent fault on piezo of injector 1

[peterbol]

Hi all, car died on me a while back towed to garage for a diag, came back with crank sensor and various maf related errors..
Anyway found the wires to the crank sensor broken so sorted that, fired up instantly but seemed to be running on 3 cyl, just picked up diag and a lexia and after clearing errors I've now got error
P1354 Piezo fault on No1 injector..
P0102 flowmeter short to earth, guessing thats the MAF
P1351 fault not referenced
I switched injectors 1 and 2 around  the other day to confirm prior to getting the lexia, didn't make any difference..
Checked continuity between injector and ECU having previously found a broken wire on no 3, all seems good..
Are these injectors ,Siemens by the way, coded in anyway?
Can I get one from a breakers and pop it in without any problems
And is there any reliable way of testing them with a multimeter before forking out..
Cheers

[Sol]

They're coded using the numbers printed in a circle on the collar at the top of the injector. Easy to do with DiagBox though now you have it. From memory it's in the replacement parts dialog. I think you have to enter the codes for all 4 Injectors one at a time then save, it will tell you when to turn ignition off and on etc. Also you can read individual flow rate corrections per injector so if one is dud, the correction figure will be way out like +10 or something nuts. Most should be less than +1 or -1.

Remember No1 is the end nearest the flywheel on French cars.

[peterbol]

They're coded using the numbers printed in a circle on the collar at the top of the injector. Easy to do with DiagBox though now you have it. From memory it's in the replacement parts dialog. I think you have to enter the codes for all 4 Injectors one at a time then save, it will tell you when to turn ignition off and on etc. Also you can read individual flow rate corrections per injector so if one is dud, the correction figure will be way out like +10 or something nuts. Most should be less than +1 or -1.

Remember No1 is the end nearest the flywheel on French cars.

Thanks Zion,
I seem to remember it saying the correction was 100% on all the injectors, i'll run it again in the morning, so the codes are specific to the injectors? ie swapping No1 cyl injector with No 2 cylinder injector No 1 injector is still No 1 even though its now in cyl 2 ? This common rail piezo injector stuff is all new to me

[Sol]

No mate it's stored per position. If you swap 1 and 2, the ECU will operate them as if they were still in the original positions. It can't tell, they all look the same to the ECU. The numbers on the top are coded values for flow rates, pop pressures, pre and main injection quantities, needle lift durations etc from when the injectors were manufactured. No two are the same so the codes are needed to ensure smooth running and emissions control.

If you have high correction on all 4 injectors, then possibly the rail sensor is bad or the fuel filter clogged, must be something common if all 4 are correcting massively.

Values should be up to 1 either plus or minus for a good injector. One thing, never unplug one and run the engine to test for a dud. It can cause huge damage according to the Citroen documentation.

Probably due to having no positive pressure at the injector nozzles from the fuel at 300 to 1700 bar, so the compression of the cylinder which in a diesel is maybe 25 to 1 (so 170-360 psi or so or 25 bar max) is enough to shove carbon up the fine micro nozzles into the injector, damaging it or jamming the needle. At best, the particles will cause needle wear very quickly by contaminating the area it slides in.

[cancunia]

When you swap the injectors, does the fault move? I saw from your earlier post that it was before you had Lexia so maybe not a good idea to keep swapping them around. But you could swap them and then re-configure Lexia / Diagbox? A Zion says, if you have all 4 with massive corrections, maybe it's something further back. Changing the fuel filter is a good starting point.

[peterbol]

No mate it's stored per position. If you swap 1 and 2, the ECU will operate them as if they were still in the original positions. It can't tell, they all look the same to the ECU. The numbers on the top are coded values for flow rates, pop pressures, pre and main injection quantities, needle lift durations etc from when the injectors were manufactured. No two are the same so the codes are needed to ensure smooth running and emissions control.

If you have high correction on all 4 injectors, then possibly the rail sensor is bad or the fuel filter clogged, must be something common if all 4 are correcting massively.

Values should be up to 1 either plus or minus for a good injector. One thing, never unplug one and run the engine to test for a dud. It can cause huge damage according to the Citroen documentation.

Probably due to having no positive pressure at the injector nozzles from the fuel at 300 to 1700 bar, so the compression of the cylinder which in a diesel is maybe 25 to 1 (so 170-360 psi or so or 25 bar max) is enough to shove carbon up the fine micro nozzles into the injector, damaging it or jamming the needle. At best, the particles will cause needle wear very quickly by contaminating the area it slides in.

[peterbol]

No mate it's stored per position. If you swap 1 and 2, the ECU will operate them as if they were still in the original positions. It can't tell, they all look the same to the ECU. The numbers on the top are coded values for flow rates, pop pressures, pre and main injection quantities, needle lift durations etc from when the injectors were manufactured. No two are the same so the codes are needed to ensure smooth running and emissions control.

If you have high correction on all 4 injectors, then possibly the rail sensor is bad or the fuel filter clogged, must be something common if all 4 are correcting massively.

Values should be up to 1 either plus or minus for a good injector. One thing, never unplug one and run the engine to test for a dud. It can cause huge damage according to the Citroen documentation.

Probably due to having no positive pressure at the injector nozzles from the fuel at 300 to 1700 bar, so the compression of the cylinder which in a diesel is maybe 25 to 1 (so 170-360 psi or so or 25 bar max) is enough to shove carbon up the fine micro nozzles into the injector, damaging it or jamming the needle. At best, the particles will cause needle wear very quickly by contaminating the area it slides in.

Yes I read it can do damage removing the lead....After I did it, tbf I've done it in the past on this car and must have been lucky as all was good after, and it did identify a broken injector wire..don't think I'll be doing it again, I read if you disconnect while it's injecting it can stay open and bang goes the motor..Thanks for the info on the codes, I'll have a look round some local breakers and see what they've got.
Still yet to check the fuel pressure sensor..

[peterbol]

When you swap the injectors, does the fault move? I saw from your earlier post  that it was before you had Lexia so maybe not a good idea to keep swapping them around. But you could swap them and then re-configure Lexia / Diagbox? A Zion says, if you have all 4 with massive corrections, maybe it's something further back. Changing the fuel filter is a good starting point.

No didn't make any difference, didn't get a chance to plug it into diagbox today, I would've expected the injector with the Piezo fault to show very different results to the others but they were all floating around the 100 % correction, read on a french forum this was normal, but seems a lot of correcting goin on lol, will add a fuel filter to the list, the last diag by a local garage when it died on me threw low fuel pressure errors as well as MAF and crank sensor not working, broken wires on crank sensor sorted, cleared and did a scan with diag box when it arrived and have 1 Piezo and MAF error and glow plug error..Just got a feeling an injector won't solve it..Always the optimist ?

[Sol]

That's a lot of faults to have. I'd check all fuses in the engine bay fusebox including the Masterfuse bank under the top tray. Have to pull all the plugs out to lift the tray up and the Masterfuse bank is underneath.

But check the top layer too. There's a few dedicated to engine sensors.

Fuse list attached.

[peterbol]

That's a lot of faults to have. I'd check all fuses in the engine bay fusebox including the Masterfuse bank under the top tray. Have to pull all the plugs out to lift the tray up and the Masterfuse bank is underneath.

But check the top layer too. There's a few dedicated to engine sensors.

Fuse list attached.

Thanks for that, i'll see if I can check them tomorrow, im guessing the crank sensor was shorting and causing other errors to come up, none of the original errors came back after I cleared it except MAF short to ground, piezo and an undefined error that seems to relate to a glow plug/relay error, although there's current to all plugs, whether theyre all working is another thing Fires up on a couple of turns even at the current minus 5 here.. definately not running on all cyls though..Get this sorted and then I can think about doing the clutch lol!