[Engine] {SAGA} Timing snapped

[jj9]

No, the rockers aren't sacrificial, and no, if they broke, that wouldn't seize the engine.

I assume this model engine is an 'interference' engine...  
You are looking at damaged pistons, damaged valves and bent valve stems, damaged valve guides, possibly broken rockers, damaged bearings, posssibly scratched cylinder walls.

It's a mess.
If you want to repair it yourself, it may end up costing you more in parts and tools than to get a refurbished engine to drop in.

As you can see in the video I linked to of a repair on engine like this following a timing belt failure a couple of the rockers have snapped (broken) this is due to piston to valve contact, the head will still be usable.

In stark contrast the resulting damage following a snapped timing belt on a 1.9d (XUD engine)  that has no rockers and the camshaft directly drives the valves via buckets is at least a snapped camshaft with a load of mangled valves, or the force knocks the bucket "sideways" and wrecks the head totally....so yes I think it's fair to refer to the rockers as sacrificial.

Piston damage... I've seen quite a few snapped timing belts in my time and the only time the pistons have been damaged is if the valve head had snapped and fell into the cylinder, that's unlikely with the rocker set up, the rocker will snap (sacrificial) 

Watching the video I linked to.... 
interesting that the camshaft lobes can rotate as they are press fitted., so a new camshaft will be required.

The video is real world & demonstrates what is likely to be needed to fix an enigne like this following a snapped timing belt.

.

[Gadgetman]

For a rocker to be sacrificial, it has to be designed to be that. I've never heard that being the case with Citröen.

I wouldn't trust the pistons without a very thorough examination. They can have micro fractures from the stress they've been exposed to.

[jobbiejew]

Would anything other than a 9HP fit into this without heavy modification? Been quoted £700 plus parts for a repairs. And yes that was the correct like to the seller who are completely refusing to refund the money as “it goes against their terms” and they’re looking for a replacement according to them.

[Sol]

A refund is the law, if you pay up front online and the item is no longer available. Tell them you're going to the police and trading standards. Bullshit answer btw. No one is allowed to have terms that preclude the buyers statutory rights.

And if you get something that isn't a 9HP then it must have the exact same emissions and injection system or you have a lot of work ahead to even get it running. Remember every engine code has differences, some minor some major. If they were all the same then engine codes wouldn't be needed.

Others on here have tried a different engine code only to not have it running after weeks of trying.

The ECU is expecting an exact set of sensors and actuators. The days of plonking in a different engine and it just works, are long gone. Some codes will be very similar and some will be totally different. Different turbos, actuators, sensors, injectors, air doser, it's a minefield.

[jobbiejew]

This was their stance on the matter. I went ballistic yesterday because of their handling of it. Not happy with them even searching for another engine now after that fiasco. Anyone else selling a 9HP engine?

[Sol]

Ah ok, it says "deposit not refundable and used toward a solution" sounds well dodgy. But was the £700 a deposit? Seems like they think that.

I'd understand £100 being right. Anyway, reminds us all not to deal with that lot!

So ideally you want an engine not too hard to swap. Attached is a list of engine codes and what they are, should be helpful. 9HP was used on a lot of Citroen and Peugeot cars so should be easy to find. 1.6 HDi 90. 

Also might want to PM @E8jmy as he's just bought an exact code engine, and lives near Glasgow, may have a tip on where he went to get his one.

Click his name above to send a PM.

[jobbiejew]

Ah ok, it says "deposit not refundable and used toward a solution" sounds well dodgy. But was the £700 a deposit? Seems like they think that.

I'd understand £100 being right. Anyway, reminds us all not to deal with that lot!

So ideally you want an engine not too hard to swap. Attached is a list of engine codes and what they are, should be helpful. 9HP was used on a lot of Citroen and Peugeot cars so should be easy to find. 1.6 HDi 90. 

Also might want to PM @E8jmy as he's just bought an exact code engine, and lives near Glasgow, may have a tip on where he went to get his one.

Click his name above to send a PM.

Thanks Zion I’ll drop him a PM. I’ve just had a garage offer to do the work to replace the head, valves and stuff for a reasonable price as long as I supply parts. I’m looking at these parts:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-CITROEN-...890.l49292

And

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-1-6-H...890.l49292

And 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GATES-TIMING-...890.l49292

Would these be sufficient?

[Sol]

That all looks right mate. It's a few quid but worth it if it gets you back on the road.

[jj9]

For a rocker to be sacrificial, it has to be designed to be that. I've never heard that being the case with Citröen.

I wouldn't trust the pistons without a very thorough examination. They can have micro fractures from the stress they've been exposed to.

Whether the rockers are designed to be sacrificial or not is irrelevant, the fact that they are fitted to the engine and they break saving the head from being wrote off is enough.

Everything is possible & micro fractures in the pistons could happen, but I would gamble that the pistons would be fine, I base that on the fact that of all the snapped timing belts I've seen, or heard of,  I've never heard of the pistons breaking up after the engine has been rebuilt and put back into service.

.

[jobbiejew]

UPDATE

Car is being picked up from Kilmarnock, Scotland and heading to Glasgow next Friday for the work to be carried out. Ordered the parts listed above so just a matter of waiting on them arriving then it’s getting sent up on a flat bed - £80 for 25 miles so can’t complain.

Looking at £400 labour + parts, so still the guts of £700-odd but it means it’ll be back in service by the following Monday if everything goes to plan.

It might seem like a steep price to pay for an engine repair on a car that’s sitting somewhere in the region of 240k-250k.

Powered it up and pushed it up and down the street and gave it a full electrical check today which all checked out perfect. One thing that could my attention was the fuse box on the battery, to the left there is a 100 amp connector but nothing is connected to it. There is one loose wire but I can’t determine if that’s from its days as an ex taxi or something else. This disconnected wire is just 2 bare wires. I’ll get pics in the morning of it to show you. Does anyone know what the 100 amp thing with nothing on it is all about? Anything else worth buying at this point before I send it up to be repaired so everything can be done/checked at once?