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Speedo and rev counter
#21
Of course TC, you are right it probably pre-dates the BSI. I forgot it was an M49.
My Van: 2012 B9 1.6 HDi Enterprise
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#22
Is there the (remote) possibility that the 2 dials have a fuse somewhere - Haynes manual for later models seems to show an instrument cluster fuse which might however  relate to all of the instruments, but can't see anything for earlier models. Poke and hope ....! Rolleyes
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#23
(04-03-2021, 07:57 AM)Tomcat3 Wrote:  I dont think Skibonittens motor will have the bsi unit and some of the other complications as its an early vehicle before all that was brought in around 2002/3. But I may be wrong.

Hi

I have no idea what bsi is, and it’s first registered in Denmark September 2001, so maybe it’s without this bsi thingy  Wink Wink

If anyone can gather any data using the vin, I will send it, and yes, I tried myself on another page, but it won’t recognize my vin  Exclamation

Engine code should be kfw but I have no idea how to find out gearbox code and so on Smile

But, anyway.....

Thanks for all the help
Proud Berlingo owner from Denmark  Big Grin

Present car - Citroen Berlingo multispace 1.6 HDI 2010

Previous berlingo’s
[i]Citroen Berlingo 1.4 vomit-green Innovation 2001[/i]
Berlingo 1.9 D 1997 van
Partner 2,0 2001 HDI
Berlingo 1.8 2001 multi space 




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#24
(04-03-2021, 10:01 AM)oilyrag Wrote:  Is there the (remote) possibility that the 2 dials have a fuse somewhere - Haynes manual for later models seems to show an instrument cluster fuse which might however  relate to all of the instruments, but can't see anything for earlier models. Poke and hope ....! Rolleyes

I haven’t been able to find such a fuse, and all other dials and light, and so on work perfectly...

But if there is a fuse, pleeeeeeease let me know  Smile Smile
Proud Berlingo owner from Denmark  Big Grin

Present car - Citroen Berlingo multispace 1.6 HDI 2010

Previous berlingo’s
[i]Citroen Berlingo 1.4 vomit-green Innovation 2001[/i]
Berlingo 1.9 D 1997 van
Partner 2,0 2001 HDI
Berlingo 1.8 2001 multi space 




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#25
(03-03-2021, 09:49 PM)Rasputin Wrote:  If you are familiar with electronics you might be able to desolder the pointer from the PCB and replace it, but used clusters are not very expensive on eBay, at least in the UK - around £30-50 - plus it's a simple single plug-swap and single (yes, one) screw. But remember what I said about mileages.

You are still thinking of only a two-link chain (sensors/cluster). The chain is more like sensors/loom/BSI/loom/more loom/com2000/loom/cluster/cluster chips/pointer.

I wasn’t able to find an instrument cluster on the scrappy I went to, today, and by the way, is there som sort of serial nr on my instrument I should find out before purchasing a used one, on eBay or other online places ?

And can I purchase parts for the instrument, and replace them ?
Proud Berlingo owner from Denmark  Big Grin

Present car - Citroen Berlingo multispace 1.6 HDI 2010

Previous berlingo’s
[i]Citroen Berlingo 1.4 vomit-green Innovation 2001[/i]
Berlingo 1.9 D 1997 van
Partner 2,0 2001 HDI
Berlingo 1.8 2001 multi space 




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#26
Tomcat3 is almost certainly right, and if he is you can forget everything I've said. I based my comments on the clusters in M59s not M49s without thinking - sorry.

The wiring system in Berlingos changed at some point from traditional to multiplexed, and it was probably when the M59 replaced the M49 but you should check to be sure with your own car.

By traditional, I mean how any average Joe would assume a car to be wired - for example:

   sensor - loom - analog meter (probably with fuses along the way)

which is more or less what you imagined was the case in your earlier post.

This traditional system is very simple, but its big disadvantage is that every electrical component must have its own wiring loom, and all the wires in such a car can measure many kilometers in total.

The multiplexing system is radically different. Every electrical device now only needs a shorter wire to connect it to a central computer, including all devices which generate information whether they be analog or digital, such as engine sensors, dashboard switches, stalk switches, brake pedal, etc. This computer (which is called the BSI) also has other connections to electrical items which need to be controlled, e.g. lights, locks, brakes, instrument clusters, radios, heaters, etc.

In this system, the signals from sensors are read and understood by the BSI, which then generates a coded digital data stream (just like Morse Code in basic terms) which it then sends out to the things which need to be controlled, such as brakes, the carburetor, and the instrument cluster. All these devices have their own mini-computer (or a few of them share one mini-pc) whose job is to decode the data stream and convert it into control signals for the device to be controlled, such as brakes etc.

This includes the M59 instrument cluster, so now you can see that all it really is, is a large PCB containing data decoding chips and (probably) some simple voltmeters to read voltage levels on the output pins of some chips which represent real world values like road speed, but are not directly generated by the road speed sensor or whatever. So although you can probably replace some of its components, there wouldn't really be any advantage over replacing the whole unit.

But if your M49 has the traditional wiring system, you can forget all of this. With traditional wiring, your instrument cluster will probably be very different and may well have traditional analog pointers driven directly by sensors which you might be able to repair individually. Hopefully someone else here has knowledge of such clusters; I don't.

Sorry to mislead you!
Current: 2003 1.4i MS MPV - Lucifer Red
Prev: 2003 1.6 MS Desire - Bile Blue
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#27
There is movement!!!!

Today I had the instrument cluster out, and cleaned the soldering and everything, some of the soldering on the pcb were poor therefore I desoldered it, and gave it a good clean

And then when I reattached the instrument cluster on started the car, the rev counter made some small movement, and I strange ticketing noise...... when I shut of the car again, the same noise came back for about a second, sounded like when you pull back one of your toy-cars to whind it up, and then release it and it moves forward ( very very hard to explain )

When I’m driving to work tomorrow maybe it all works again ( yes, I’m also naive )

I’ve maybe found another instrument and if it’s the same nr ( 501029450021 ) I will change the rev counter and the speedo parts in my own speedo.....

And I will try to take a few pictures while doing it so others maybe can use for some sort of help....
Proud Berlingo owner from Denmark  Big Grin

Present car - Citroen Berlingo multispace 1.6 HDI 2010

Previous berlingo’s
[i]Citroen Berlingo 1.4 vomit-green Innovation 2001[/i]
Berlingo 1.9 D 1997 van
Partner 2,0 2001 HDI
Berlingo 1.8 2001 multi space 




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#28
(04-03-2021, 07:57 AM)Tomcat3 Wrote:  I dont think Skibonittens motor will have the bsi unit and some of the other complications as its an early vehicle before all that was brought in around 2002/3. But I may be wrong.

After I bought my 2001 M49 van it had the annoying habit of having a flat battery every morning. The dealer said the radio was to blame, so they changed it, but to no avail, so then they said the BSI was at fault, so they changed that too, again to no avail. In the end I just learned to live without the radio. But the point is, my 2001 van has a BSI - at least according to the dealer.
Work van:     2020 1.5 BlueHDi 100 Enterprise Berlingo
Spare van:    2001 1.9 600d Berlingo
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