Berlingo starts for a few seconds then cuts out. Then crank over for 30 seconds

[BristolBloke]

Hi. I have a Berlingo 1.6hdi 2011.
My van will start in the morning and run for about 6 or 7 seconds and then cut out.
You then have to crank it over for about 30 or 40 seconds almost to the point where the battery is about to die and it will start up. Almost like your sucking up the diesel through the whole system. once its started it will be alright for the rest of the day as long as its not turned off for to long. This repeats itself every day.
Injectors ok, O rings ok, Injector pipes ok.
Any ideas.

[Sol]

Blocked tank vent creating a vacuum enough to empty the lines overnight? Have you tried taking the fuel cap off after running for a while and see if air rushes in?

Also priming the bulb on top of the engine to the front till it goes firm and see if it starts straight away. If it does, air is getting in or fuel is draining back.

You should also be able to prime with the lift pump by putting the ignition on for a few seconds several times then trying it. There is a part on the fuel filter also that's prone to cracking where the water sensor goes if fitted (most don't have the sensor fitted, it's a blank casting) as the casing can crack and let air in, so draining fuel back to the tank again.

[BristolBloke]

Blocked tank vent creating a vacuum enough to empty the lines overnight? Have you tried taking the fuel cap off after running for a while and see if air rushes in?

Also priming the bulb on top of the engine to the front till it goes firm and see if it starts straight away. If it does, air is getting in or fuel is draining back.

You should also be able to prime with the lift pump by putting the ignition on for a few seconds several times then trying it. There is a part on the fuel filter also that's prone to cracking where the water sensor goes if fitted (most don't have the sensor fitted, it's a blank casting) as the casing can crack and let air in, so draining fuel back to the tank again.

Tried the priming the lift pump. no difference. Will give the fuel cap thing a do in the morning. Have left the fuel cap off tonight also to try that.

[cancunia]

Is there a lift pump in the tank on these engines, I seem to remember it's just the hand primer bulb?
It sounds like you may have air in the fuel system, take a look at the fuel filter and the pipes that connect from it to the High Pressure pump.

[Sol]

Sorry CC you are right as the vehicle is post 2010 (DPF equipped) there's no electric lift pump. It's the button on top of the filter housing that has to be used.

(For clarity, if you have a DPF there is no in tank pump and pre-dpf had an electric lift pump according to catcar)

By the way, the Citroen tech note on LP fuel circuit testing / dismantling states the button must be pumped for 120 seconds to fully prime the LP lines to the HP pump.

[BristolBloke]

Hi. Thanks for your replies. Took the fuel cap off overnight. Put back on it the morning. Turned van over a few times and it started. It never cut out this time and kept running. done the same the next couple days and starts each day although a bit longer than usual turnover to start the van. left the man a couple days without starting it with the fuel cap back on and were back to the original problem.
What does this tell us.

[Sol]

I think the air vent in the tank filler neck could be blocked and when the air above the fuel cools over night, it of course shrinks and pulls a vacuum sucking the fuel back down the lines and emptying them.

There's a filter in the filler vent, made of cloth mesh type material I'm sure. If you ever get fuel or additive down it from trying to put redex in or pulling the nozzle out too quickly when it's still trickling, or overfilling the tank after the nozzle has cut off the first time then the liquid soaks the material and it clogs up.

This has already happened to someone else on here, can't remember the name.

The fuel returns to the tank hot while running, and the air above it will be very warm. You stop, the van cools down a lot and the air will shrink massively creating suction because it can't pull in air from the outside to maintain the volume. Probably worse in colder weather.

Try putting hot water in the bottom of an empty plastic bottle then after a few secs, put the lid on and stick it under cold running water, it will collapse as the hot air above the water shrinks. Common demo in physics lectures using a metal oil can and boiling water. The can gets crushed just by air pressure outside it.

Watch this, dramatic and possible because of the steam phase change but cooling air does the same thing, just with a wee bit less grunt....

https://youtu.be/JsoE4F2Pb20

[Jfrenchi46]

I think the air vent in the tank filler neck could be blocked and when the air above the fuel cools over night, it of course shrinks and pulls a vacuum sucking the fuel back down the lines and emptying them.

There's a filter in the filler vent, made of cloth mesh type material I'm sure. If you ever get fuel or additive down it from trying to put redex in or pulling the nozzle out too quickly when it's still trickling, or overfilling the tank after the nozzle has cut off the first time then the liquid soaks the material and it clogs up.

This has already happened to someone else on here, can't remember the name.

The fuel returns to the tank hot while running, and the air above it will be very warm. You stop, the van cools down a lot and the air will shrink massively creating suction because it can't pull in air from the outside to maintain the volume. Probably worse in colder weather.

Try putting hot water in the bottom of an empty plastic bottle then after a few secs, put the lid on and stick it under cold running water, it will collapse as the hot air above the water shrinks. Common demo in physics lectures using a metal oil can and boiling water. The can gets crushed just by air pressure outside it.

Watch this, dramatic and possible because of the steam phase change but cooling air does the same thing, just with a wee bit less grunt....

https://youtu.be/JsoE4F2Pb20

This info has been useful in identifying my problem. I know the previous owner of my car used redex regularly.    just wondered what the remedy is. Is it an easy job to replace the clogged gauze. Cheers

[Sol]

I've never tried to get to it myself but it's in the upper part of the filler tube between cap and tank. I do have a diagram somewhere. Let me see if I can find it and I'll post it here

Ok best I can do for now is location of it (screenshot using phone, not at work yet)

   

It's the thicker tube beside the main filler on the left. It looks like it can be pulled off.

Picture is from tank removal procedure, ignore instructions but it's the view from below rear left wheel hub / disc of course.