[Brakes] Brakes feel 'wooden' and lacking in power

[mangocrazy]

I'vve owned my 55 plate 2.0 HDi Berlingo for about 3 months now and in that time I've never really been satisfied with the braking power on offer. There's not much feel in the system and when needing to stop quickly it's aways a bit heart in mouth as to whether it will stop in the required distance. Even really stamping on the brake dpesn't make any perceptible difference to the rate of retardation abd they always feel 'wooden' inoperation.

Rear shoes were replaced a few weeks ago and the mechanic reported that the front discs wpold need replacement in a few months, as would the pads, but that the setup was serviceable for now. I was also wondering whether the servo or vacuum pump might be faulty.

Am I being too picky, and are the brakes 'all  like that sir'? I don't have any prior experience with Berlingos... Any obvious things to check out?

[ariel badger]

I am ok with my brakes but I come from the world of old Landrovers, My friend drove my Multispace and asked me what is wrong with the brakes!

[bikey]

The brakes on my 04 HDI were just like that, I think they gradually deteriorated without my noticing. The penny dropped when I drove the wife's car and nearly launched myself through the windscreen.

Turned out that the vacuum pump had worn out, checked it by removing the pipe and placing a finger over the intake while revving the engine. There was hardly any suction.

Replaced the pump plus a couple of vacuum pipes just in case and it made all the difference.

[RattyCortina]

It sounds like a vacuum/servo issue. There should be a noticeable difference in pedal feel with the engine running, switch off and press the brake a few times to exhaust the servo and the pedal should feel much firmer. When I got my Berlingo the pedal felt very soft and I thought there was a problem with the m/c but without the engine running the pedal is firm. I did find that it had new discs and pads on so I put it down to the pads not being bedded in.

[Guanock]

The normal test for servo operation is:
Engine off, deplete the vacuum by repeated pedal applications.
Press down on pedal and start engine.
You should feel the pedal drop immediately, by quite a few centimeters.
If there is either no drop or a delayed drop, then you need to check out the vacuum system.
It is always worth critically checking the vacuum hoses for blockage or collapsing.
If the vacuum pump is accessible, remove the pipe and check for a good healthy vacuum with the engine running.

Geoff

[geoff]

M49 and M59 don't have the most agressive brakes I've found and need more pedal effort than many folks are used to, they are adequate of course but not suited for BMW wannabees.

Don't go down too many blind ( expensive ) alleys in search of nirvana you'll be upset if you do, just see what the brake rollers tell you at the garage is my best advice and go from there.

[mangocrazy]

OK, thanks for all that. I'll certainly do the servo tests and report back. I've ordered a new set of front discs and pads, as they are ripe for replacement anyway, so hopefully that will make some improvement. I'm not expecting racing 6-pot calipers levels of braking, but enough to give confidence in all situations. My previous car (a 57 plate Focus) had brakes that would exercise the seat belts in a sharp stop, so this is quite a difference.

From what's been said I'm beginning to suspect the vacuum pump. But I'll know more once I've tested the servo.

[RattyCortina]

Maybe teaching you to suck eggs, but don't expect an immediate improvement with the new discs and pads. Until they bed in it will feel worse!

[mangocrazy]

I've just been out and tested it, and I would say that the pedal drops gradually over 2-3 seconds, not immediately. Also with the engine switched off, it only takes 2 (maximum 3) pedal depressions to deplete the vacuum and bring the pedal back up. So to me that points towards the vacuum pump not operating at full efficiency, in fact a fair way below it.

Would people agree with that?

[mangocrazy]

Maybe teaching you to suck eggs, but don't expect an immediate improvement with the new discs and pads. Until they bed in it will feel worse!

Yes, that's understood. I always allow longer stopping distances with new pads/discs.