[Engine] Limp Mode no error codes or warnings Please help.

[saskak]

Could it be that the turbo shaft has broken cleanly and it is spinning without any air being pumped, e.g. exhaust side spins on its own and the turbine side does not spin, but freely moves, although there would be underboost errors. That would be rather rare, but the rest seem OK. If I were you I would disconnect the wastegate vacuum line and drive like that. If the turbo is working you should notice general lack of power, but if it is the same the turbo somewhat is not working.
Do you know if it is the VNT turbo or the fixed geometry as in 110bhp vs 90bhp?

[cancunia]

If the engine won't rev above 2.5-3k rpm I suspect it's something else than the turbo.
Do you have access to Diagbox?

[ampy1]

Could it be that the turbo shaft has broken cleanly and it is spinning without any air being pumped, e.g. exhaust side spins on its own and the turbine side does not spin, but freely moves, although there would be underboost errors. That would be rather rare, but the rest seem OK. If I were you I would disconnect the wastegate vacuum line and drive like that. If the turbo is working you should notice general lack of power, but if it is the same the turbo somewhat is not working.
Do you know if it is the VNT turbo or the fixed geometry as in 110bhp vs 90bhp?

It is VNT turbo. Possibly broken connector. I won't drive it as is. It is just too slow and the MOT is out now. It only reaches 2400rpm so they cannot really pass it on emission test or I would take it down for the MOT test but seems a bit pointless knowing it will fail and not knowing how to fix the issue. 
The thing is, it is the sound of the engine. It has always been a harsh diesel sound to it We have a Ford with a similar engine and that also has that diesel growl but with car soundproofing it sounds a bit less. The van engine is missing that sound. I'm pretty certain it is being retarded by the ECU because it's detecting one or more errors. I would not have thought the turbo would effect that sound to a large degree. They have that harsh sound before the turbo has had chance to spool up but thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll pull the turbo pipe back off and see if spins just to rule it out when I can force myself back out to fiddle endlessly with it.

[ampy1]

If the engine won't rev above 2.5-3k rpm I suspect it's something else than the turbo.
Do you have access to Diagbox?

Sadly not. It doesn't reach 2500rpm and I also agree that it is seems like something other than turbo. I think I need to get a better diagnostic platform. Thanks for your input.

[saskak]

OK, so a VNT turbo, that is a bit different than the fixed one, a bit more complex. I am not really an expert on the VNT ones, but the vanes or the vanes' controller/sensor could be stuck/broken. There are a few operational differences with the fixed geometry, especially in the low-mid range, so the ECU might be noticing a problem and restricting the rpms or giving you a limp mode.

If I were you I would check the most common problems with the VNT ones and check these. Sadly I do not know them.

[cancunia]

I have a VNT on my 2009 Volvo C30 1.6 HDi (same engine as the Berlingo, Focus, Mini etc). When I first bought the car it would not accelerate happily above 40mph but below that it was fine and as I did the test drive in town I didn't notice anything wrong. After changing the turbo actuator solenoid to no effect, it turned out to be the VNT nozzle ring that was seized and had missing vanes. While trying to find the problem I broke the MAF which caused the EML to come on & limp mode but the car would still reach 70mph after a while.
Interesting to read about the harsh growl, mine is the same & I always wondered about that!
To get a better handle on what's up, access to Diagbox is really the way to go, either via a direct purchase or an indie garage.

[ampy1]

I have a VNT on my 2009 Volvo C30 1.6 HDi (same engine as the Berlingo, Focus, Mini etc). When I first bought the car it would not accelerate happily above 40mph but below that it was fine and as I did the test drive in town I didn't notice anything wrong. After changing the turbo actuator solenoid to no effect, it turned out to be the VNT nozzle ring that was seized and had missing vanes. While trying to find the problem I broke the MAF which caused the EML to come on & limp mode but the car would still reach 70mph after a while.  
Interesting to read about the harsh growl, mine is the same & I always wondered about that!
To get a better handle on what's up, access to Diagbox is really the way to go, either via a direct purchase or an indie garage.

Hi, 
Thanks for you your reply. My dad had a Focus with the same engine but in fairness to Ford, it was quiet inside the car with all the sound proofing etc. The van has none.
Our normal cars are Volvo diesel D5 5 cylinder diesels and they sound like a V8 petrol engine running a stainless steel exhaust. Amazing things.
It is possible something inside the turbo has broken off but it ran perfectly when parked and there have no no strange noises whilst starting it. The rod the operates the vanes is also very smooth and has not been stuck whilst left parked.
I'm wondering if the RAC may have some decent diagnostics. I pay them 200 every year and have never called them out. I don't like to surrender though!!!!

I'm wondering if the crank sensor could be the problem as it is covered in oil and gunge from a leak. I would have thought though that with no signal from the crank sensor the engine would not fire up. It would be good if someone comes with that answer.

[ampy1]

OK, so a VNT turbo, that is a bit different than the fixed one, a bit more complex. I am not really an expert on the VNT ones, but the vanes or the vanes' controller/sensor could be stuck/broken. There are a few operational differences with the fixed geometry, especially in the low-mid range, so the ECU might be noticing a problem and restricting the rpms or giving you a limp mode.

If I were you I would check the most common problems with the VNT ones and check these. Sadly I do not know them.

The VNT seems basic. A rod operates a cam that moves a ring that adjust the vane angle inside the exhaust half of the turbo. The rod is moved by a vacuum unit that is controlled by the actuator. If only I had a known good one to swap. I may take a peek at my sons car. He has the 1.4Hdi engine. They seem very very similar. I'll wait until he has gone out Hahaha.

[saskak]

If I were you I would get a cheap diagbox interface from ebay. My quick search suggest that they can be had for ~£55. This is only an example https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402938556842, I have not really had a better look at the various options or if that particular one is any good but my experience is that they are all the same. I would look into a UK-based seller, as the rest will come from China and may take awhile. At the bottom of the ebay page there is the seller's registered address.

You can get the software from any torrent site, but most interfaces will probably come with the software (Diagbox) and you would need an XP laptop or via a virtual machine on any OS. I have used this https://www.virtualbox.org/ without a problem and it is free. You can then record various parameters and see where the problem can be, e.g. is there any pressure generated by the turbo, MAF, etc. I am not too sure if RAC will have the Citroen specific software. You could probably phone and ask them.

Otherwise you can take the turbo apart and see if there is a problem. But if that solves nothing then you can end up spending forever on various parts of the car.

[ampy1]

If I were you I would get a cheap diagbox interface from ebay. My quick search suggest that they can be had for ~£55. This is only an example https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402938556842, I have not really had a better look at the various options or if that particular one is any good but my experience is that they are all the same. I would look into a UK-based seller, as the rest will come from China and may take awhile. At the bottom of the ebay page there is the seller's registered address.

You can get the software from any torrent site, but most interfaces will probably come with the software (Diagbox) and you would need an XP laptop or via a virtual machine on any OS. I have used this https://www.virtualbox.org/ without a problem and it is free. You can then record various parameters and see where the problem can be, e.g. is there any pressure generated by the turbo, MAF, etc. I am not too sure if RAC will have the Citroen specific software. You could probably phone and ask them.

Otherwise you can take the turbo apart and see if there is a problem. But if that solves nothing then you can end up spending forever on various parts of the car.

Thanks for the info and link. I'll look into it. I have Virtual Box on a dedicated laptop for the Volvo interface. I am not too techie so it is ok as long as it works but if it updates it all goes nuts and I get lost and usually have to start over. I turn off auto update but on occasion I have to turn it on for something.