[Engine] 2004 1.6 petrol struggling to start. Starter?

[mrak]

A few months ago my 2004 1.6 petrol stated struggling when starting. Eventually it just gave up and could only hear the solenoid click (I think it's the solenoid). If I take the battery out and give it a charge, it'll start up. Perfectly (or near) perfect the first couple of times, but it starts struggling again eventually.

I should say that I live in London and rarely do drives long enough (and drive fairly infrequently) to charge the battery. Maybe if I was doing a bit of a commute everyday it would get enough juice back into the battery and I wouldn't notice.

Anyway, I replaced the battery to see if it was just getting a bit tired. I got the 330A CCA version - that's what was in there before - but I see there's also a 480A battery. Hopefully that's fine! Anyway, it started right away with the new battery but the same issue came back. It will slowly sound like it's getting harder and harder to start until I need to take the battery out and give it a charge. I think I got about a dozen trips after the change.

Checked alternator by unhooking battery while the engine was running. Electrics continued to work as normal, so presumably that's fine.

I'm guessing the starter may be the issue - maybe it's just requiring too much of a jolt to get it kicking. It does sound like there's a bit of a struggle to get the the engine turning over - like it needs a bit more momentum.

Anything else I should try before replacing the starter?

Also, I was poking around the engine today. It's a bit of a ball ache to get to the starter (even with air ducts out). Is it possible to actually do from above? I don't have any ramps.

Thanks!

[saskak]

I am no expert on starter motors, but IMHO the 330CCA is way too low. I got 610CCA for my 1.6 petrol.
The problem is that the short journeys do not help. Very rarely the alternator will charge the battery to full, if it ever does. I read somewhere that you battery gets charged to ~75% on the car. So, you get the drain on starting and then shut down, when it has not recharged a decent charge state. You could put multimeter on the battery posts when it is running to see if it achieves 14.1-14.3 V. That will give you an indication if the alternator is charging appropriately. It could be that the starter motor is struggling, but if you charge the battery and then it starts without a problem, it is the shorter journeys that you do and do not give a chance to the battery to charge.

Charge it with a charger from time to time, if all else is good. That is your best bet. Someone else will come along to give you a more expert advice.

[mrak]

Thanks. Appreciate the thoughts!

I just replaced the battery with what was in there before (and what eurocar parts said was correct!). Would rather not buy another if I don't have to. Especially if it's not going to get charged anyway.

I'll add that the battery had a 12.2 charge when I took it out this morning. Am I wrong in thinking that that should be enough to get it going? I wasn't getting a thing out of it. If the starter is a bit "seized" (or whatever) this is only going to compound the battery not charging issue.

Cheers,
Mark

[saskak]

Thanks. Appreciate the thoughts!

I just replaced the battery with what was in there before (and what eurocar parts said was correct!). Would rather not buy another if I don't have to. Especially if it's not going to get charged anyway.

I'll add that the battery had a 12.2 charge when I took it out this morning. Am I wrong in thinking that that should be enough to get it going? I wasn't getting a thing out of it. If the starter is a bit "seized" (or whatever) this is only going to compound the battery not charging issue.

Cheers,
Mark

Eurocarparts, do not get me started on them. I got whatever the maximum CCA I can afford for my 1.6 petrol. It is not as needed in the petrol as compared to the HDi, but still.

Pandemic and all, I drive less frequently now. So, I charge my battery every 2 weeks or so, otherwise I can feel it struggling a tad, but not to the point where it is really struggling. So, maybe your starter is a bit on the worn side of things.
My 610CCA is ~2years now and it is getting to ~65-70% of original capacity. Charging is your best bet.

12.2V is a bit on the low side of things, so most likely it just drains with time. You may or may not have some parasitic draw from say the radio.

[oilyrag]

Thanks. Appreciate the thoughts!

I just replaced the battery with what was in there before (and what eurocar parts said was correct!). Would rather not buy another if I don't have to. Especially if it's not going to get charged anyway.

I'll add that the battery had a 12.2 charge when I took it out this morning. Am I wrong in thinking that that should be enough to get it going? I wasn't getting a thing out of it. If the starter is a bit "seized" (or whatever) this is only going to compound the battery not charging issue.

Cheers,
Mark

Eurocarparts, do not get me started on them. I got whatever the maximum CCA I can afford for my 1.6 petrol. It is not as needed in the petrol as compared to the HDi, but still.

Pandemic and all, I drive less frequently now. So, I charge my battery every 2 weeks or so, otherwise I can feel it struggling a tad, but not to the point where it is really struggling. So, maybe your starter is a bit on the worn side of things.
My 610CCA is ~2years now and it is getting to ~65-70% of original capacity. Charging is your best bet.

12.2V is a bit on the low side of things, so most likely it just drains with time. You may or may not have some parasitic draw from say the radio.

Disconnecting the battery with the engine running is a pretty good way of damaging the alternator and should be avoided. 12.2 volts is probably below a level that will start the car.  If you do next to no miles with all of the accessories on then it's likely that there will be a steady drain. The Ah of the battery also matters as it tells you the 'depth' of charge, whereas the CCA is the boost it can provide on starting. 
Given that there could be some damage to the alternator check out the output as advised above and keep use of lights etc. to a minimum - even electric cars need charging!

[oilyrag]

Thanks. Appreciate the thoughts!

I just replaced the battery with what was in there before (and what eurocar parts said was correct!). Would rather not buy another if I don't have to. Especially if it's not going to get charged anyway.

I'll add that the battery had a 12.2 charge when I took it out this morning. Am I wrong in thinking that that should be enough to get it going? I wasn't getting a thing out of it. If the starter is a bit "seized" (or whatever) this is only going to compound the battery not charging issue.

Cheers,
Mark

Eurocarparts, do not get me started on them. I got whatever the maximum CCA I can afford for my 1.6 petrol. It is not as needed in the petrol as compared to the HDi, but still.

Pandemic and all, I drive less frequently now. So, I charge my battery every 2 weeks or so, otherwise I can feel it struggling a tad, but not to the point where it is really struggling. So, maybe your starter is a bit on the worn side of things.
My 610CCA is ~2years now and it is getting to ~65-70% of original capacity. Charging is your best bet.

12.2V is a bit on the low side of things, so most likely it just drains with time. You may or may not have some parasitic draw from say the radio.

Disconnecting the battery with the engine running is a pretty good way of damaging the alternator and should be avoided. 12.2 volts is probably below a level that will start the car.  If you do next to no miles with all of the accessories on then it's likely that there will be a steady drain. The Ah of the battery also matters as it tells you the 'depth' of charge, whereas the CCA is the boost it can provide on starting. 
Given that there could be some damage to the alternator check out the output as advised above and keep use of lights etc. to a minimum - even electric cars need charging!

Replying to myself here .....how sad is that .......additional thought is, apart from a faulty alternator, is whether you have the correct alternator fitted. It could have been replaced in the past by the wrong type and if you do find that the alternator isn't putting out close to 15 volts make sure that you get the correct original output one, as originally fitted.

[cancunia]

The symptoms from the first post suggest that the battery is not being charged enough rather than a faulty starter. If you still have the original battery, can you charge that out of the car and then try jumper leads with both batteries connected?
As above, running the engine without the battery connected is not good for the alternator, best way to test if it's charging is to measure the voltage at the battery terminals when the engine is running, look for something around 14-15v.
The best place to buy batteries in my experience is Tayna, they have a good website, good prices & good support via phone & FB.
According to the Tayna website, based on the year & engine rather than the reg, it's a type 027 battery with 600A CCA & 60AH capacity.

[oilyrag]

The symptoms from the first post suggest that the battery is not being charged enough rather than a faulty starter. If you still have the original battery, can you charge that out of the car and then try jumper leads with both batteries connected?
As above, running the engine without the battery connected is not good for the alternator, best way to test if it's charging is to measure the voltage at the battery terminals when the engine is running, look for something around 14-15v.
The best place to buy batteries in my experience is Tayna, they have a good website, good prices & good support via phone & FB.
According to the Tayna website, based on the year & engine rather than the reg, it's a type 027 battery with 600A CCA & 60AH capacity.

60 Ah is pretty low - I have a 1932 car which only has an 800cc engine but the battery is 80Ah - such a low Ah means that any draw or repeated short runs will eat the electricity and not leave much for cranking over. If the car starts first go then it's OK, but once it needs to be cranked repeatedly (like my old car!) then it's all downhill.

[saskak]

The symptoms from the first post suggest that the battery is not being charged enough rather than a faulty starter. If you still have the original battery, can you charge that out of the car and then try jumper leads with both batteries connected?
As above, running the engine without the battery connected is not good for the alternator, best way to test if it's charging is to measure the voltage at the battery terminals when the engine is running, look for something around 14-15v.
The best place to buy batteries in my experience is Tayna, they have a good website, good prices & good support via phone & FB.
According to the Tayna website, based on the year & engine rather than the reg, it's a type 027 battery with 600A CCA & 60AH capacity.

60 Ah is pretty low - I have a 1932 car which only has an 800cc engine but the battery is 80Ah - such a low Ah means that any draw or repeated short runs will eat the electricity and not leave much for cranking over. If the car starts first go then it's OK, but once it needs to be cranked repeatedly (like my old car!) then it's all downhill.

Damn, 80Ah, that is some battery. My 1.6HDi one is only 77Ah and the 1.6 petrol is 63Ah.

[oilyrag]

The symptoms from the first post suggest that the battery is not being charged enough rather than a faulty starter. If you still have the original battery, can you charge that out of the car and then try jumper leads with both batteries connected?
As above, running the engine without the battery connected is not good for the alternator, best way to test if it's charging is to measure the voltage at the battery terminals when the engine is running, look for something around 14-15v.
The best place to buy batteries in my experience is Tayna, they have a good website, good prices & good support via phone & FB.
According to the Tayna website, based on the year & engine rather than the reg, it's a type 027 battery with 600A CCA & 60AH capacity.

60 Ah is pretty low - I have a 1932 car which only has an 800cc engine but the battery is 80Ah - such a low Ah means that any draw or repeated short runs will eat the electricity and not leave much for cranking over. If the car starts first go then it's OK, but once it needs to be cranked repeatedly (like my old car!) then it's all downhill.

Damn, 80Ah, that is some battery. My 1.6HDi one is only 77Ah and the 1.6 petrol is 63Ah.

Those are Irish Amps, so there's possibly a bit of exaggeration on the label.