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Stop and Start, fuel economy and "My Citroen" app
#1
Hi,

I've another active thread with some questions, but to prevent putting too many queries in one thread I will start another here!

I have a new Berlingo 1.2 PureTech 130 Flair XTR M 5dr EAT8 (petrol)

Questions...

(1) How long do I have to be driving the car before the "Stop and Start" cuts in? What factors control that? It *is* active (according to the settings) but it seems that it doesn't begin working for some time after setting off.  Before that, I can be sitting at a red light for 10 minutes without it operating i.e. without the revs dropping to zero. It's pretty annoying because on a short but traffic-choked journey I am back home before it's been able to operate.  I have observed it working, so I know it's not faulty, but only after about 30 mins of driving. Does it depend on the air con at all? Might that time shorten in warmer weather?

(2) This being the first new car I have owned, can I expect the fuel economy to improve? At the moment I am deeply disappointed. I'm getting only 27 mpg for a mix of urban and A-road driving. Will this rise as the engine beds in and loosens up? I am using the "eco" mode. BTW, I drive like a pussycat.

(3) The "My Citroen" app is driving me nuts. It worked for the first day only.  Now, no more journeys are ever recorded. I have uninstalled and re-installed, turned bluetooth on and off, makes no odds.  I *am* starting the app up on my (Android) phone at the beginning of every journey.  The app shows a notification icon which, if I view, claims to have connected to the car. But nothing happens. No new journey shows. What do I have to do to make this work?

Thanking you all!
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#2
1) The Stop/Start does seem to have a mind of its own but there are a number of factors you may not be aware of that affect it. In fact I've no idea of them all as new ones pop up all the time for me depending on the varied driving conditions - I don't pay that much attention to it so I can't really say if when it happens one time it'll always happen.
I can say for sure though that it won't work when your battery is below a certain level of charge or in adverse weather conditions.

I've driven my car whilst the weather is minus fifteen degrees in the Balkans and all the way up to forty six degrees in Spain (Celsius by the way) at different times - and no, at either end of the scale but exactly what, it doesn't work. I think when it gets below two or three degrees it stops and you'll see in the settings that it has turned itself off. If you try and put it on, it will say there is an error.
Aircon - yes but not always, depends on the temperature outside and state of battery maybe and has worked with the aircon on sometimes but not at high or low temperatures.
Speed - if you are stopping and starting a lot in traffic it may work but then stop. Also I think you have to go above a certain speed, not walking pace but faster, for it to cut in. Imagine stopping, the engine stops, you set off but very slow in a queue, when you stop again it may not work. This is normal.

I very much doubt there is a fault in it, I just think you are hitting the times when it is designed not to work - e.g. as you say, "pretty annoying because on a short but traffic-choked journey I am back home before it's been able to operate."
Others will maybe be able to elaborate more as to the exact parameters, my comments are just from experience alone, not technical knowledge.
Edited to add - Looking at the handbook, page 104 of the PDF version, there are a lot of parameters by the way when it won't operate. See next post.

2) My engine is the 1.2 but not the higher powered one and not the XTR.
I hope you've now done more than the 8 miles but I did notice mine improved somewhat from when totally new. Mine gives poorer than expected mileage when in a lot of traffic, but that is just an impression and probably down to my expectations.
On mixed journeys I average 5.5 to 6.5 litres per 100 km, roughly equal to 52mpg - 44mpg.
On motorways where I cruise at 120 - 130km/h (75 to 80mph) I do about 7 - 7.5 (when the motorway is hilly) litres per 100km - so between approx 35 to 40 mpg in round figures.
I have no idea what it is if my journeys are often in heavy traffic as I don't need to do that.
I suspect it will get better for you but I also think you deal with more heavy traffic, stopping, slowing down, accelerating and little cruising than you think.
I know little about the eco mode, never use it but really I should look into it now the cost of fuel is rocketing.

3) Good luck with the app. You are suffering from what I have and others - some can have it working all the time, there are threads on here that help, but mine is temperamental and even after following advice from here and trying all sorts of permutations of on/off, before getting to the car, when inside, wifi on or off, bluetooth off and put back on again, reinstalling the app, using my wife's phone instead etc etc, it doesn't record without fail every time. Sometimes it won't record for a couple of weeks or more and then I can hear my phone beeping away as it gets itself back up to date.
Now a 2019 K9 1.2 petrol.
Before a 2010 B9 1.6 HDi diesel.
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#3
Regarding the Stop/Start - the handbook says the following -

"Main conditions for operation
– The driver’s door must be closed.
– The sliding side door must be closed.
– The driver's seat belt must be fastened.
– The state of charge of the battery must be
sufficient.
– The temperature of the engine must be within
its nominal operating range.
– The outside temperature must be between
0°C and 35°C.

Special cases:
The engine will not go into standby if all of the
conditions for operation are not met and in the
following cases.
– Steep slope (ascending or descending).
– Vehicle has not exceeded 6 mph (10 km/h)
since the last engine start (with the key or the
“START/STOP” button).
– The electric parking brake is applied or being
applied.
– Needed to maintain a comfortable temperature
in the passenger compartment.
– Demisting active.
In these cases, this indicator lamp flashes
for a few seconds, then goes off.
After the engine has restarted, STOP
mode is not available until the vehicle
has reached a speed of 5 mph (8 km/h).
During parking manoeuvres, STOP mode
is not available for a few seconds after
coming out of reverse gear or turning the
steering wheel."
Now a 2019 K9 1.2 petrol.
Before a 2010 B9 1.6 HDi diesel.
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#4
Reading what Mark604 has posted, it seems possible that a combination of engine not being warm enough and insufficient momentum made between stops, might be preventing the STOP-START feature from kicking in.

I very rarely drive in shunting traffic and tbh I usually switch the STOP-START feature off as I find it annoying, though on the occasions when I forget, it has certainly operated before 30 mins of driving.

On the fuel economy question, have you measured this between fill-ups or is it just what the computer is telling you?
Work van:     2020 1.5 BlueHDi 100 Enterprise Berlingo
Spare van:    2001 1.9 600d Berlingo
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#5
Mega thanks to @Mark604 for that comprehensive reply. Those fuel consumption figures (40+ mpg) are what I was expecting, based on my previous car (1.4 litre Skoda automatic petrol) so will just have to hope things improve dramatically as the engine loosens up. It's very difficult to compare like-with-like in terms of traffic, it may well be that I'm hitting more delays than normal without really being conscious of them, and certainly you don't have to spend long in traffic for that to really impact the economy. Yes, I've done way more miles now!

The Skoda's stop-start system was also unpredictable, but definitely worked "from the off" in similar conditions. Still, I think you are correct, it *is* functioning correctly according to its algorithm, just have to accept it as it is.

The app is an irritant. I'll persist with it for a month but it seems from browsing the topic online that it is very fragile. Do I really need it? No, of course not. I just like things to work as advertised!
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#6
Hey @notsofast, I was relying on the trip computer. Haven't used up a tank yet. So that's absolutely another possible source of error.
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#7
Hi,

I have just taken delivery of a Berlingo XTR Flair XL (Brand new 1.2 PureTech Automatic 130PS) last weekend. Did a 180miles on the M4 when I took delivery and another 100 miles on A roads and around town (schools pick up etc.). Just hit half a tank, so about 30 litres used. That puts me at about 42mpg and I was very pleased with that. Hope this helps with numbers and deciding if there are other issues at play leading to such low MPG as you are getting.

Nick.
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#8
I think you need to be a bit patient and get some mileage under it. Several tanks worth and let it settle down. Check out all the settings on the touch screen and dashboard with reference to the handbook and generally play with stuff.

Several times over the first couple of weeks with mine I'd be nipping outside to the car to see if I had what it said in the handbook. Sometimes not because of the specifications for mine being quite low. Or did something work like it said. I don't have the navigation option for example so I played with google maps/Android Auto and all other sorts of apps and eventually gave up and now I just use a standard Garmin one I'd had for ages anyway that has lifetime updates.

There's several things on mine I want and don't have and an equal number of things I have and I don't want or need.
Why on earth the front passenger seat doesn't recline all the way back I've no idea. Why don't I have a power point/cigarette lighter thing in the back that I want. No idea. Need a better spec model I think. Etc.

By the way, yours has an auto box, no? Do you think that may affect or be affecting the fuel economy?
Now a 2019 K9 1.2 petrol.
Before a 2010 B9 1.6 HDi diesel.
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#9
Yes, mine has an auto box @Mark604. These days, autos are usually more efficient than manuals (in contrast with the past) because the software is so much better at changing gear than a human and it has so many more gears - 8!  But I fully take your point about leaving it for a while. I too have been dashing between car and manual (why can't they give you a printed one? Reading on a phone screen is horrible) trying things out and wondering why there are so mismatches between manual and reality. I've done about 175 miles but I think it does need to be closer to a 1000 before I can make any real judgements - different weather conditions, more road and traffic types. 

I've yet to try the built-in sat nav. I'm not a fan of these normally and prefer my Garmin stand-alone unit, so if Citroen's effort disappoints I won't have any hesitation in returning to that. A pity there is no way to cast the output from a stand-alone satnav onto the car's touch screen in the way that you can with a paired mobile.

Thanks for that news @nppatt, definitely the sort of values I am hoping to see.
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#10
Recently - for obvious reasons - I've kept a close eye on my van's fuel consumption, and can see that the biggest factors that increase consumption are acceleration (i.e. opening the throttle) and, particularly, going uphill (i.e. working against a load). Doing both at once is the worst combination. Conversely, just keeping a steady speed on the flat, even when at respectable speeds (e.g. 50 mph) is remarkably frugal, though obviously at higher speeds the increase in wind resistance has an increasingly negative effect.

Recently I've been avoiding hills where possible and have averaged 51-52 mpg in my 1.5 Hdi, mostly on open country roads with a load of (I guess) about 200-300 kg (which includes the roof rack and me).
Work van:     2020 1.5 BlueHDi 100 Enterprise Berlingo
Spare van:    2001 1.9 600d Berlingo
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