[Engine] Checking Timing/TDC

[Pete Smith]

Just wondered if anyone knows how the crank pulley timing pin hole relates to TDC on a 1.6hdi Berlingo?
When I have the crank pulley pinned at it's 12'o clock position, all four cylinders are in line at mid point of cylinder stroke.
If I want to get cylinder 1 to TDC I have to move the crank by 90 degrees.

Just checking this is correct, I assumed for some reason that the timing hole on the crank pulley would put cylinder one at TDC, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Whilst I write - I have my engine partially disassembled at the moment after changing the camshaft chain.
It all seemed to be very straightforward and I think I was pretty careful in setting the timing correctly, but when I put it all back together it wouldn't start. Engine seemed to be spinning quite quickly and wouldn't catch, and it felt quite easy to crank the engine over by hand from the crank pulley.....making me think I had an issue with poor compression.
Just taken it all apart again to check that the rockers hadn't fallen off(!) but it all looked ok.
I did bleed the lifters before re-assembly, I notice that they were hard again when I took it apart a second time.
Should I just put them back in as they are, or bleed them again so they are springy?

If anyone could answer my question on the timing check, and maybe what the most likely cause of poor compression could be following a timing belt/timing chain job I would appreciate it, many thanks.
Pete

[geoff]

Mid stroke for pistons when pinned is correct, it allows head / valve work without piston / valve collision.

[Pete Smith]

thanks for confirming the timing question Geoff, much appreciated.

[geoff]

My thoughts on apparent low compression would be valve timing incorrect.

It would be best to check double check again.

Take nothing for granted in case you have made a silly error somewhere, quite possibly not of course I mention it as often ( with a petrol ) folks get TDC on the wrong stroke and maybe there is a similar issue to be faced with a diesel ? eg have you got the correct no1 cylinder

[Pete Smith]

My thoughts on apparent low compression would be valve timing incorrect.

It would be best to check double check again.

Take nothing for granted in case you have made a silly error somewhere, quite possibly not of course I mention it as often ( with a petrol ) folks get TDC on the wrong stroke and maybe there is a similar issue to be faced with a diesel ? eg have you got the correct no1 cylinder

Hi Geoff, 
I'm 99% sure I got the camshaft timing correct, I was very careful when setting the new chain on the zero marks on the cam sprockets, but I will double check again.
Is it possible to get the crank timing on the wrong stroke?
If I align the timing mark on the crank pulley at 12 o clock and pin it, is it possible for that to be on the wrong cycle somehow?
If I rotate one full turn of the crank pulley am I back in the same position?

Thanks!

[geoff]

Sorry I've not worked on the 1.6Hdi to such detail my experiences are gained with other engines, hopefully others will be along with a more precise view.

You may well have it all correct and there is another easy answer - not left the crank sensor plug off or some other such thing ? Easily done I know as I've done similar in the past ( shh don't let on though )

[jj9]

@ Pete Smith,

How are you at this stage with the engine, why is it stripped down?

Have you had the crankshaft pulley off?

In my experience of inline 4 engines the crankshaft pin always sets the engine at TDC (Piston 1 & 4 at the top of their stroke).

If I align the timing mark on the crank pulley at 12 o clock and pin it, is it possible for that to be on the wrong cycle somehow? 

No,

If I rotate one full turn of the crank pulley am I back in the same position?

Yes.

.

[Sol]

The 1.6HDi is belt timed. How would it have a chain, or am I missing something?

There is a pin hole on the cam sprocket and another on the crank pulley where a drill bit can be inserted to set up the timing. Cylinder 1 is at the gearbox end from memory on French cars. The holes sit at about 1 o'clock on the castings. afaik.

Here is a link to Rob and Chris from Salvage Rebuilds, doing exactly this job on a B9 (I also assume your M59 has the very similar earlier 1.6HDi):

https://youtu.be/auaSPx6Qg9Q

[jj9]

The 1.6HDi is belt timed. How would it have a chain, or am I missing something?

The 16 valve version has a small chain between the two cams.


.

[Sol]

Ah of course, thanks JJ.