starter

[citroenberlingoowner]

Hey just fitted a new starter motor on my berlingo 1,6 hdi 2009 

Went fine for a few days days then suddenly after a 10 minutes of driving i started hearing a rattling noise and tye battery lamp went on. then i stopped the car popped the hood and saw that there was a lot of smoke coming from the starter and it was very warm.

have heard there can be a aproblem with the ignition not turning back and the starter motor keep going.
but shouldent i have been able to hear this fairly easily?

[oilyrag]

There is the possibility of the ignition key not returning from the 'start' position - caused by failure of the internal spring in the ignition switch. This allows the starter to work but then not withdraw from the flywheel teeth when the key is released. It is not that easy to hear that this has happened - it may only be a whine.
The starter motor, starting the engine under load, does not turn that quickly and is not built to run at high revs. It also changes from being a motor meant to drive, to a dynamo, when driven at high revs. This will generate a lot of heat - enough to melt the solder connections and windings in the motor, and destroying the starter. The spike in voltage caused by the driven starter may also show up as a lit warning on the dash. The bearings in the starter will also be destroyed and will be rattling.
If the key/ignition  is not the source of the problem the same results can occur if the starter solenoid does not let go once the starting cycle is complete, but the results will be the same. 
You should be able to feel the key return, unaided, from the start to the run position.

[citroenberlingoowner]

There is the possibility of the ignition key not returning from the 'start' position - caused by failure of the internal spring in the ignition switch. This allows the starter to work but then not withdraw from the flywheel teeth when the key is released. It is not that easy to hear that this has happened - it may only be a whine.
The starter motor, starting the engine under load, does not turn that quickly and is not built to run at high revs. It also changes from being a motor meant to drive, to a dynamo, when driven at high revs. This will generate a lot of heat - enough to melt the solder connections and windings in the motor, and destroying the starter. The spike in voltage caused by the driven starter may also show up as a lit warning on the dash. The bearings in the starter will also be destroyed and will be rattling.
If the key/ignition  is not the source of the problem the same results can occur if the starter solenoid does not let go once the starting cycle is complete, but the results will be the same. 
You should be able to feel the key return, unaided, from the start to the run position.

okay, i see but how do i diagnose if the starter solenoid does not let go when the starter cycle is complete and what do i do about this? becuase the key turn back unaided

[oilyrag]

You may be able to feel that the motor is still engaged by touching the motor once the engine is running- it will probably vibrate, certainly warm up and generate some noise. 
It is likely to have suffered some damage and ideally remove it. You can then bench test it by attaching an earth lead to the casing and touch a live test lead to the small contact. This should operate the solenoid. 
If it sticks or rattles and smells burnt then take it back to the supplier for a replacement. It is not going to improve. Also check that you have been sold the correct motor as the starter gear/flywheel match may not be correct and the gears are jamming together.
One further thought is to check that, once started, the voltage to the small contact drops to zero - there is a slim possibility that the ignition switch has failed and there is continuous supply to the starter, but it's a remote chance.

[citroenberlingoowner]

You may be able to feel that the motor is still engaged by touching the motor once the engine is running- it will probably vibrate, certainly warm up and generate some noise. 
It is likely to have suffered some damage and ideally remove it. You can then bench test it by attaching an earth lead to the casing and touch a live test lead to the small contact. This should operate the solenoid. 
If it sticks or rattles and smells burnt then take it back to the supplier for a replacement. It is not going to improve. Also check that you have been sold the correct motor as the starter gear/flywheel match may not be correct and the gears are jamming together.
One further thought is to check that, once started, the voltage to the small contact drops to zero - there is a slim possibility that the ignition switch has failed and there is continuous supply to the starter, but it's a remote chance.

yeah okay thank you, the starter is completely destroyed so i am to get it started i have to roll it. only one click noise when i try to start now. just what was happening with the old starter.

[citroenberlingoowner]

update: seems that there is something wrong with the ignition lock and can get stuck in ignite position although this happens rarely 1/50 but it explains why there wasent a problem before driving with the new starter for a couple of days then suddenly it broke.