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Engine torque link
#1
Hey all, has anyone had a torque link (rear engine mount) replaced on their vehicle, as I have a heavy juddering from the engine on the first couple of times I pull away in the morning if the temperature outside is mild. Other times if the weather is cold, it does not do this, so I suspected the rear torque link (dog-bone mount) but there seems to be two shapes, and neither look compatible with each other. 

(if it was contamination on the clutch plate, it would be evident regardless of outside temps) - it is definitely related to getting to the clutch biting point where the van actually starts to move off, and it is a pretty violent judder for a few seconds till the clutch is fully engaged.

One is the 180688 which is the older one (pre 2009) and the later one is 1806H1 which is the type specified for my van according to ServiceBox. Problem is, all sellers (even Autodoc) say both are compatible, but they look like they are not, according to my eyes! If anyone has already done theirs or has an insight, I'd appreciate their input.

180688
   

1806H1
   

There is also a main bush which could be the actual culprit (the torque link bolts to this) - this is the bit I think is causing the issue but may need to replace both parts.

1807HC
   

Really fed up with the judder and I feel it will break something, its really violent when it does this. Yesterday, the temp in the morning was 10c and it drove like a swiss watch, tight and no judder at all. The engine felt really solidly mounted. Fast forward to this morning, 15c and it jumped all over the place when I pulled away for the first time. Does it a few times on the way to work and then settles down. If driven all day, it will start doing it again when really warmed through.

It's easy to overthink things when it's your vehicle, so it would be good to get some perspective from others who experienced this issue themselves.
.
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#2
Just observations really Zion, as I have no experience of changing one of these.  One of the replacement units has bolt holes that are in the same plane - ie all bolts are parallel, but the second unit has a bush that is aligned at 90 degrees to the mounting bolt holes. Also this one appears to have some form of damper weight (?) welded near the smaller bush. 
So both very different!

If you can get underneath and have a hot air stripper I'd suggest heating up the bushes and see if it makes things worse.  Realistically the larger bush has got the most scope to move about. I guess that the metalastic smaller bush isn't replaceable - is there a Polybush that might fit?
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#3
I to have a judder on clutch release . Does not happen often. Quite violent when it does. Can’t put forward a plausible reason for it being temperature related although you have obviously experienced this is a factor.. If the part indicated is worn don’t see why it wouldn’t do it all the time or a lot more than it does on mine. Only does it on occasion. Saying that I have know other ideas as to what it could be. As to the torque arms they look to me as though they could both do the same job. If the pitch and holes sizes are the same and the bump stop or whatever it is on the back of 1806H1 does not come into play they look like they would do the same job. Need to get a look at it mounted and see if that would get in the way. Presumably you could mount it at the top or bottom so scope to fit it. If there is slack in this don’t see why the engine movement wouldn’t take up the slack and judder only under heavy clutch action. When mine decides to do it it does so with very little provocation. If you get to see where it is mounted see if there is any oil on the bottom of clutch housing. Contamination of clutch plate does cause quite a judder on other vehicles I have had. Because it is leaking from behind flywheel it is intermittent as oil is flung outwards and drips occasionally down and contaminates the plate. How this could be temperature related is a mystery though. In my mind makes a more plausible reason than the torque link? Obviously torque link is a lot easier job so hopefully it’s that! Mine does not do it often enough to worry about. Yet.
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#4
Thanks to both for the replies. As @oilyrag says, the two versions of torque link have the end bush in a different plane, one is the same as the big bush bolt, and the other is 90 degrees out. Weird.

I've not looked at mine, not sure how easy it will be to see, but will have a go maybe this weekend.

Like yours @OMG, it needs little provocation and will judder violently when simply trying to pull away gently. Up a slope, is especially nasty.

The clutch or flywheel having a bit of oil from the rear crank seal did initially hit me as the reason, but on watching the morning temps, and I have to pull away up a slope from home each morning, I noticed that below 11 deg C, it seems not to do it at all. Which makes me think it's hardening the bushes from the cold.

I hope it's not oil from the crank seal, as that will not be cheap to fix in labour terms.
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#5
Tractor2 had this judder on cold, but the dealer replaced some engine mount ( I think the rear one ) and the judder stopped.
When moving from stand still and small revs (under 1500) the engine vibrated very hard and noisy.
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#6
Thanks deejay, that's good to know mate. That is exactly what mine does.

I think it is that rear mount, as oil leaking onto the clutch would always be there and also the clutch would behave a bit differently, theres never any slip, just the engine jumps back and forwards, the van speed is constant when this happens.
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#7
if you had oil onto the clutch disc you will smell it and it will slip in high gear 4/5
my bet is on the same engine mount as I had replaced
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#8
(04-10-2022, 01:56 PM)deejay_xb Wrote:  if you had oil onto the clutch disc you will smell it and it will slip in high gear 4/5
my bet is on the same engine mount as I had replaced

I think so too.
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#9
I had something similar, heavy engine vibration at idle for the first 2-3 minutes, when the weather is warm. No vibration when cold...
There was also a heavy vibration when the clutch was engaged.

Replaced the bottom endine mount, the rubber bushing was completely torn out. It seems to have helped.

Mine is LHD, maybe the P/N is different for RHD Berlingos...            
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#10
Hi Buki, that's the same part number for the RHD assembly. Was this easy to replace?

What's the other hole for? The one with no bush. Weight reduction?

Can I remove this from above or best from below?
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