[Warning Light] Filter regeneration or filter replacement

[Didicoy steve]

A point of interest. If /when they fitted the unique 30Litre diesel tank, when modifying the chassis. Wouldn’t that be the time to program the ECU data regarding smaller tank size, in order for the computer to calculate the amount of fuel stored /introduced into the tank and eventually how much PAT fluid to administer. If this data input had been incorrect since new build. Could that be the reason the pat fluid tank is empty after only 50k miles. Assuming it cannot trust the fuel gauge on the instrument cluster.. I was told not to trust the fuel gauge and fill up approx 200 - 250 miles. Thus minimising the amount of times the fuel cap is removed over time. If the ECU data thinks it’s getting 60L each fuel stop and it’s actually less than 30L. It could possibly average out & equate to 100k milage on a un-modified fuel tank.
If it does require a PAT fluid refill every 50k I can live with that. If performance and engine/exhaust/filter longevity isn’t compromised as it’s been running.

[Zion]

That is totally possible. There may be a way to program the tank to a lower total capacity but I've not seen that in Diagbox. Citroen likely do not design these vehicles to be converted to wheelchair versions so I expect they don't include the requirements in the programming.

[Didicoy steve]

We that didn’t go too well. The 2nd garage couldn’t get to force regen as the computer was saying bottle empty (although it had 1.7litres put in the DPF tank last week and codes reset when updating.

I’m phoning a Citroen dealer tomorrow and if that fails,I will look at transporting the car to “one off the list” provided above.

[Zion]

They need to program the multiplexed additive pump ECU in the repair menu > replacement parts > additive reservoir etc. Yours is the early version with a separate pump ECU, the later ones had it integrated in the engine ECU.

Clearing the codes and filling the bottle or tank will not make it accept the reservoir is now filled. It must be told the bottle (pouch / reservoir) has been replaced.

[Didicoy steve]

Booked in to my nearest Citroen dealer. On the 28th March, a 6 week wait, which I wasn’t expecting. It’s approximately 15miles away which is doable with my health condition as is. In the meantime I hope to try find another competent garage or a mobile mechanic in the Cambridgeshire area. The nearest one on the list provided is Wisbech and that is over 30miles away.

Having spoken again to the previous owner. He explained that the garage he took the car to in 2020 when he had the same (oil low) message, led him to believe the DPF tank was still half full, (pointing to some sort of tank with fluid in under the passenger side wing/engine bay) at this point the garage removed the fault code. However, the previous owner also reset the code once he says, with a code reader he purchased himself. So the vehicle thankfully hasn’t been driven for no more than 3.5k since 2020, with potentially little/if any fluid in the DPF tank.
Would that be detrimental (worse case scenario) to both the particle filter or engine wear and tear?
I appreciate it’s a dumb question to ask, but I’m learning more about this car and diesel system it’s operating.

[Zion]

No, it can't harm the engine. There is no tank in the inner wing / engine bay area except the screenwash and that's not connected to your issue. I don't know what they pointed out to the previous owner. It certainly couldn't be a DPF additive tank. I think this person is getting very confused or was led astray by the garage. The only thing near the wings is the screenwash and the power steering reservoir but those are on the drivers side. There's nothing at all on the passenger side that even resembles a tank.

Now, "oil low" is nothing to do with the DPF either, that would instead be engine lubricant oil, and that is not good to drive with a low level. DPF additive is not an oil. There would be no such message for the DPF additive, it says instead "risk of filter blocking - engine fault" or something very similar.

The particle filter, or DPF, catches soot and is mounted in the exhaust pipe. It does look like a barrel shaped thing and is in front of the engine. It's just a drum full of fine metal mesh. A strainer if you like. The additive tank only helps to clean the soot by burning it to ash. It is added to the fuel tank in order to achieve this. The ash stays in the filter. When it's full, it needs changed or cleaned out.

[Didicoy steve]

Thank you for your shared knowledge Zion. Apologies for saying “oil” I was referring to DPF fluid. I know the previous owner bought the car from new and sanctioned the disabled modifications. He obviously invested greatly in the vehicle, but probably like most of us was the end user and not overly familiar with the actual technical or mechanical side of the investment. On me purchasing the vehicle he was open and honest about a previous issue he had experienced with the DPF (fluidity low, partial filter at risk etc) warning message.) on purchase he explained (his words) “ the “add blue” issue I’ve described. Informing us of the previous experience he had had, & him taking it to his “local garage,” & been shown “a tank” in the passenger side/wing/engine area, when the car was up on ramps and told since there’s visibly fluid in the tank still, enough for another 50k miles, the garage simply sorted out the code clearing on his behalf and sent him on his way.
At sometime since this garage visit, the previous owner may have reset the same codes himself as he stated he purchased a code reader and managed to reset codes for the second time.

After owning the vehicle for some 8 weeks I was only 6 miles from home when I heard a single “bleep” a yellow triangle light flicked on and then off on the instrument cluster. Returning home the “bleep and yellow triangle came back on again with a message saying 43 miles of fuel left. I drove to the next petrol Station on route and filled up. Subsequently on continuing the last half mile home this “particle filter at risk message” came up.

I left the car at home and visited my local garage to explain about what the previous owner said about “add blue” & that it simply requires code reset.
I felt like a complicate “d**k” taking to the female garage receptionist, as she clearly knew more than I did about modern diesel cars, saying “PAT fluid” not add blue! She ran the registration through her PC to confirm it was actually PAT fluid and not add blue as I and previous owner were led to believe.
So you can probably gather neither myself nor the previous owner know much about these Diesel engine systems. “Only what we are told.” And a little information is often a dangerous thing, as I’m proving.

I made the decision to let this garage deal with the vehicle. When they couldn’t locate the PDF fluid tank. I contacted the previous owner and again he referred to what the garage mechanic had pointed out to him previously. He again reiterated “it was shoved up inside the passenger wing”
I then actually had the plastic engine tray removed and “both” wheel arch splash guards removed on the strength of what the previous owner believed was the assumed location of the DPF fluid tank.

I now know this wasn’t anywhere near where the DPF fluid tank was, but needed to not only locate it, but also to identify it, before any garage could proceed.
I actually had a video taken of the stripped down passenger side wheel arch/engine bay.
I did see a white plastic tank that clearly had some fluid in but assumed as the garage would have also seen that, it wasn’t the DPF fluid tank, but probably as you pointed out. The power steering reservoir. Passenger side, just back from the radiator.

I also noticed a metal cylinder that was inside the passenger side wing right at the very top. Not visible with wheel arch slash guard in place. I assumed this wasn’t the DPF fluid tank as I had by now googled the item, to know roughly what I was looking for. (I would however like to know what this cylinder is/does)

So your right on all counts Zion. I appreciate your knowledge and realise I’ve take up enough of your time. I’m just concerned I could be confusing the situation more by my choice of words (oil) etc & so apologies.

Hopefully I will familiarise myself with the workings of the forum layout and learn to upload photos or videos in future should it be required.
Many thanks Steve

[Didicoy steve]

Well, todays the day. I booked in to my nearest Citroen dealership for the diagnostic and repair, Six weeks ago when I joined their waiting list for garage repair service.

Hopefully I will have the issue with the engine fault code resolved and reset.

I will let you know how I get on.

I really can’t thank members of this forum enough, for the support and knowledge shared.

[Zion]

Hi Steve, we all learned once and no one is exempt, we aren't born knowing this stuff - so don't feel bad about this. We are here to help each other and this is no exception.

So onto the questions, up inside the inner wings are as follows (reference UK RHD)

Passenger side: Horn, ABS pump, ABS manifold.

Driver's side: Power steering pump & reservoir, windscreen washer pump and reservoir (including rear screen wash - pump is dual outlet for cars, vans have only the front outlet).

That's it really. The DPF fluid (PAT) is in a pouch up to around 2013-2015 then changes to a tank, depending it seems on PSA whim, as to what gets which (tank or pouch) until by 2015 all are a black plastic solid tank, prior to that was definitely a pouch hidden in a black plastic cover which "Looks" like a tank.

Either way it is very near to the fuel tank in a non WAV and probably similar in a WAV, unless the coach builders stuck it somewhere else, but since it has to inject a small amount of Eolys (PAT) fluid into the tank once upon each fill-up. Only vehicles with a DPF need a PAT fluid system. 2010 was the date from which all vehicles in the Euro zone had to be fitted with a DPF. It's likely that unsold vehicles were retro-fitted for sale.

Oh and I did find a section in Diagbox where the tank volume lives, and can be changed to suit. So it is possible to set the correct value for a WAV with a reduced tank capacity.

[Didicoy steve]

Thanks Zion. Dealership confirmed that the filter is blocked and advised replacing. Genuine part plus calibration £1800. Aftermarket part £1350

I left it with them and opted for the cheaper.

Thanks for the research and information

re: quote Zion > I did find a section in Diagbox where the tank volume lives, and can be changed to suit. So it is possible to set the correct value for a WAV with a reduced tank capacity.

This info came at the perfect time. I will inform the mechanic and ask if he can amend the value to that of the 30Litre diesel tank.
Thanks Steve