Poor Brakes - 2006 Partner 1.6HDI Combi

[SteveC123]

Many thanks for all the replies and apologies for not responding sooner.

So... I stripped the back brakes down and they were fine.  Looks like it must have had new shoes not that long before I bought it.

A friend lets me beg, borrow (but not steal) tools etc from his garage, so the airline and vacuum brake bleed kit were commandeered... because bleeding bleeding brakes on your own is easy with that, right?

Probably is for someone more competent but not so for me.  Maybe I should have pondered more in the early stages just why it was that I didn't seem to be needing to top the master cylinder up with nearly as much fluid as the vacuum unit was drawing out but when I poured some in, it came to the brim.

And when I cracked open the nipple at the other end, plenty flowed out.  (I still don't quite get why but no matter)

Fast forward to later in the day when the damage has been done on all four corners and I try the pedal.  Some pressure built up if you pressed it down repeatedly but as soon as you stopped, it dropped to the floor.

Hmmm.

Jacked the back up again and with the help of one of the lads from the garage, we started a manual bleed on the back right.  Next to nothing came out and following this, no pressure built no matter how much you prodded the pedal and with me out of my depth, it was suggested that we do a full system bleed.

And so we did with the help of a 'Gunsons Eezebleed' and someone who actually knew what they were doing cracking unions and nipples off under the bonnet and beyond.

I've yet to try braking hard at high speed but I don't think I need to, to know this is fixed.

Before, nothing happened braking wise until you had hit the main point of resistance on the pedal.  Now, you can feel them start to come on lightly and progressively way before you've hit that.

If I hit them hard, there's a lot more power now and whilst you can feel a hint of the back pulling down, it's more than matched by the front end.

So in short, I now appear to have brakes that don't feel anywhere near as servo assisted at light application as most other cars I've driven in recent times but which definitely stop the car when applied more firmly, and to the point this is obviously how they are.

My guess is that there has been some sort of air lock in the ABS pump or thereabouts the whole time I've owned it.  I say this having had a Skoda Fabia in the past where no-one seemed to be able to find out why the brakes weren't very good.  Turned out on those you need to activate the ABS pump with VAGCOM and with both rear caliper nipples open in order to bleed through to those.

So all is well that ends well - the dog wagon / load carrier / maybe camper (if I can find a boot jump at the right price) / bought to be sold on but proved to be too useful and comfortable and kept despite the voices in my head telling me 'It'll go wrong, expensively!' that actually hasn't mobile lives to see another day, hopefully without ending its life buried in the back of something that braked a bit harder than it could manage.

Many thanks for all the advice and I hope the above might help someone else who has read the Honest John review of these and assumed that where he says 'Brakes could be better', that they really are all as shocking as this was!

[bikergraham]

That's great , im pleased you have got to the bottom of it , ive had my Mk 1 Berlingo for 10 years and every 2 years do a brake fluid change , or rather I take it in and have it done , and for £30 its a lot better than doing it yourself as its not easy on your own . As you say the brakes are adequate for an old car but they do what they need to do without putting you through the window every time you need to stop . Keep the car and use it , I couldn't do without mine , being easy to work on and cheap to maintain and run . All the best .

[Jammy13]

Many thanks for all the replies and apologies for not responding sooner.

So... I stripped the back brakes down and they were fine.  Looks like it must have had new shoes not that long before I bought it.

A friend lets me beg, borrow (but not steal) tools etc from his garage, so the airline and vacuum brake bleed kit were commandeered... because bleeding bleeding brakes on your own is easy with that, right?

Probably is for someone more competent but not so for me.  Maybe I should have pondered more in the early stages just why it was that I didn't seem to be needing to top the master cylinder up with nearly as much fluid as the vacuum unit was drawing out but when I poured some in, it came to the brim.

And when I cracked open the nipple at the other end, plenty flowed out.  (I still don't quite get why but no matter)

Fast forward to later in the day when the damage has been done on all four corners and I try the pedal.  Some pressure built up if you pressed it down repeatedly but as soon as you stopped, it dropped to the floor.

Hmmm.

Jacked the back up again and with the help of one of the lads from the garage, we started a manual bleed on the back right.  Next to nothing came out and following this, no pressure built no matter how much you prodded the pedal and with me out of my depth, it was suggested that we do a full system bleed.

And so we did with the help of a 'Gunsons Eezebleed' and someone who actually knew what they were doing cracking unions and nipples off under the bonnet and beyond.

I've yet to try braking hard at high speed but I don't think I need to, to know this is fixed.

Before, nothing happened braking wise until you had hit the main point of resistance on the pedal.  Now, you can feel them start to come on lightly and progressively way before you've hit that.

If I hit them hard, there's a lot more power now and whilst you can feel a hint of the back pulling down, it's more than matched by the front end.

So in short, I now appear to have brakes that don't feel anywhere near as servo assisted at light application as most other cars I've driven in recent times but which definitely stop the car when applied more firmly, and to the point this is obviously how they are.

My guess is that there has been some sort of air lock in the ABS pump or thereabouts the whole time I've owned it.  I say this having had a Skoda Fabia in the past where no-one seemed to be able to find out why the brakes weren't very good.  Turned out on those you need to activate the ABS pump with VAGCOM and with both rear caliper nipples open in order to bleed through to those.

So all is well that ends well - the dog wagon / load carrier / maybe camper (if I can find a boot jump at the right price) / bought to be sold on but proved to be too useful and comfortable and kept despite the voices in my head telling me 'It'll go wrong, expensively!' that actually hasn't mobile lives to see another day, hopefully without ending its life buried in the back of something that braked a bit harder than it could manage.

Many thanks for all the advice and I hope the above might help someone else who has read the Honest John review of these and assumed that where he says 'Brakes could be better', that they really are all as shocking as this was!

SteveC123 you are a star. Just found your post and solution.

 I have a 2007 partner van and have exactly the same problem you had. I also attempted to solve this problem the same way as you. I was beginning to think I needed a new ABS unit or a £200 reconditioned unit. I bought a Gunsons Ezebleed and thought this would be enough to clear all the air in the braking system, including the ABS unit. I also thought of finding someone with a ob11 reader with a hot function to turn on the ABS pump at the same time as cracking bleed nipples. I think your 'someone' who cracked off unions probably worked his way around the 4 pipe connections on the ABS unit to clear air with the Ezebleed connected. I will try this over the weekend or next week and will post the results.

Thanks

[smutts]

Though the use of Lexia or a scan tool might be best for bleeding the ABS pump.
The Bodgerati might try by first bleeding so there is enough brakes that you don't kill anyone, then drive till you find some gravel or mud & lock the brakes on that.
The ABS pump will run, hopefully dislodging the air out of the ABS to where it can be bled out using your eezibleed, might need a few goes & bleeds though.

[Sol]

Though the use of Lexia or a scan tool might be best for bleeding the ABS pump.
The Bodgerati might try by first bleeding so there is enough brakes that you don't kill anyone, then drive till you find some gravel or mud & lock the brakes on that.
The ABS pump will run, hopefully dislodging the air out of the ABS to where it can be bled out using your eezibleed, might need a few goes & bleeds though.

Correct.

[smutts]

The brakes on these things were never sharp.
but if you are comparing with say a mk2 Polo,
or a fully loaded 1959 series II land rover on Porlock Hill,
not so bad.

Might be worth testing vacuum, if it's diesel.