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[Engine] Help needed
#1
Good afternoon all, I'm in dire need of some help or advice.
I have a 1.6hdi berlingo 2 (2010) and finding it very difficult to start first time each day. 
It cranks and sounds completely normal when cranking but just won't kick. I have to bump start to get it running, after that it starts every time on key for rest of the day, but back to square one again in the mornings. I've tried lots of things, 
Heater/glow plugs changed, 
Heater relay changed, 
Fuel filter and oil filter changed, 
Egr blanked off to try, 
Can't seem to see any leaks and no faults showing up. 
Any ideas welcome, thank you
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#2
Sounds like the fuel is draining back to the tank over night. I'd suspect a small air leak into the low pressure side, it can also leak at the filter lid and let air in. Anywhere on the suction side where it's low pressure, a "leak" let's air in and not fuel out, so the lines drain down instead of staying full.

Does your car have the primer bulb on top of the engine? If it does, try pumping that until it goes hard, and try starting it, if it works then that's probably the issue, but the actual source could be anywhere on the fuel system.

Now you say it "bump starts" what do you mean by that? Rolling it down a hill? Getting a battery jump? People often use terms without knowing what they're actually talking about, just so we understand.
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#3
(19-03-2023, 06:40 PM)Zion Wrote:  Sounds like the fuel is draining back to the tank over night. I'd suspect a small air leak into the low pressure side, it can also leak at the filter lid and let air in. Anywhere on the suction side where it's low pressure, a "leak" let's air in and not fuel out, so the lines drain down instead of staying full.

Does your car have the primer bulb on top of the engine? If it does, try pumping that until it goes hard, and try starting it, if it works then that's probably the issue, but the actual source could be anywhere on the fuel system.

Now you say it "bump starts" what do you mean by that? Rolling it down a hill? Getting a battery jump? People often use terms without knowing what they're actually talking about, just so we understand.

Hi and thank you for responding, it does have a primer bulb yes, I shall give that a try in the morning, hopefully it works. And a bump start is pushing it or rolling it downhill for me.
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#4
Ok so try that and let us know what the results are, we may be able to get to the bottom of this with you.

One other thing I've seen happen, is when people overfill the tank so it spurts out (you know how you see people try again when the pump nozzle clunks off, and on a diesel where the fuel foams when put into the tank, and you should never try again right away or you get a diesel shower and make the forecourt slippery) - this also soaks the breather filter in the filler tube, which swells and blocks up, stopping air getting in. Overnight as the fuel cools down, the tank pulls a vacuum, sucking the fuel back. This would be tested by leaving the cap off overnight and see if it just starts.

But most likely you have a crazing issue in the rubber pipe ends, a crack in the filter lid, or some other means of air getting in like a bad o-ring somewhere.
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Current:
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2017 B9 1.6 BlueHDi Van
2012 B9 1.6 HDi Van
2008 M59 1.6 HDi Van
2003 M59 1.9D Van
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#5
(19-03-2023, 07:11 PM)Zion Wrote:  Ok so try that and let us know what the results are, we may be able to get to the bottom of this with you.

One other thing I've seen happen, is when people overfill the tank so it spurts out (you know how you see people try again when the pump nozzle clunks off, and on a diesel where the fuel foams when put into the tank, and you should never try again right away or you get a diesel shower and make the forecourt slippery) - this also soaks the breather filter in the filler tube, which swells and blocks up, stopping air getting in. Overnight as the fuel cools down, the tank pulls a vacuum, sucking the fuel back. This would be tested by leaving the cap off overnight and see if it just starts.

But most likely you have a crazing issue in the rubber pipe ends, a crack in the filter lid, or some other means of air getting in like a bad o-ring somewhere.

I've changed fuel filter twice lately thinking faulty filter originally but no change, I'm thinking you're suggestion of air getting into system sounds most likely, have tried pretty much everything else and ruled out other things based on what's happening, it's been a right head scratcher but hopefully the primer bulb gives me an answer in the morning. I'll let you know tomorrow how I get on and thank you once again for your advice, much appreciated
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to Johnnygg99 for this post:
  • Sol
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#6
Check your fuel lines in the engine bay for cracks and poor joints.
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#7
(19-03-2023, 08:30 PM)ItsGreen Wrote:  Check your fuel lines in the engine bay for cracks and poor joints.

I shall have a good nose around in the morning and hopefully find something, thank you
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#8
The push fit fitting used on the fuel system have a small O-ring inside and once disturbed can allow air to seep into the system.

You can get replacement O-rings, see page 2 of the thread below for sizes & suppliers.

https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-21093.html


When chasing a fault like this only ever change one thing at a time so you can identify what was causing the problem !



.
My vehicle .... 2006 (m59) Berlingo Multispace Desire - 1.6 HDI 92 
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to jj9 for this post:
  • cancunia
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#9
(19-03-2023, 07:46 PM)Johnnygg99 Wrote:  
(19-03-2023, 07:11 PM)Zion Wrote:  Ok so try that and let us know what the results are, we may be able to get to the bottom of this with you.

One other thing I've seen happen, is when people overfill the tank so it spurts out (you know how you see people try again when the pump nozzle clunks off, and on a diesel where the fuel foams when put into the tank, and you should never try again right away or you get a diesel shower and make the forecourt slippery) - this also soaks the breather filter in the filler tube, which swells and blocks up, stopping air getting in. Overnight as the fuel cools down, the tank pulls a vacuum, sucking the fuel back. This would be tested by leaving the cap off overnight and see if it just starts.

But most likely you have a crazing issue in the rubber pipe ends, a crack in the filter lid, or some other means of air getting in like a bad o-ring somewhere.

I've changed fuel filter twice lately thinking faulty filter originally but no change, I'm thinking you're suggestion of air getting into system sounds most likely, have tried pretty much everything else and ruled out other things based on what's happening, it's been a right head scratcher but hopefully the primer bulb gives me an answer in the morning. I'll let you know tomorrow how I get on and thank you once again for your advice, much appreciated

Good afternoon, so I spent about 15 minutes priming this morning before attempting to start, the bulb wasn't really getting too much harder, now I could hear fuel gargling but It did sound like air was pumping somewhere beside priming bulb, couldn't figure out where, there is a pipe attached to the fuel line on the priming bulb that had cuts in it, but couldn't tell if that's where air sound was coming from, anyway, after priming for 15, I tried to start on key and no good, cranked away but didn't kick. Hand to bump start(hill start) again, for hill start it only needs a Small run(about 10/15 feet)
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#10
(20-03-2023, 12:15 PM)Johnnygg99 Wrote:  
(19-03-2023, 07:46 PM)Johnnygg99 Wrote:  
(19-03-2023, 07:11 PM)Zion Wrote:  Ok so try that and let us know what the results are, we may be able to get to the bottom of this with you.

One other thing I've seen happen, is when people overfill the tank so it spurts out (you know how you see people try again when the pump nozzle clunks off, and on a diesel where the fuel foams when put into the tank, and you should never try again right away or you get a diesel shower and make the forecourt slippery) - this also soaks the breather filter in the filler tube, which swells and blocks up, stopping air getting in. Overnight as the fuel cools down, the tank pulls a vacuum, sucking the fuel back. This would be tested by leaving the cap off overnight and see if it just starts.

But most likely you have a crazing issue in the rubber pipe ends, a crack in the filter lid, or some other means of air getting in like a bad o-ring somewhere.

I've changed fuel filter twice lately thinking faulty filter originally but no change, I'm thinking you're suggestion of air getting into system sounds most likely, have tried pretty much everything else and ruled out other things based on what's happening, it's been a right head scratcher but hopefully the primer bulb gives me an answer in the morning. I'll let you know tomorrow how I get on and thank you once again for your advice, much appreciated

Good afternoon, so I spent about 15 minutes priming this morning before attempting to start, the bulb wasn't really getting too much harder, now I could hear fuel gargling but It did sound like air was pumping somewhere beside priming bulb, couldn't figure out where, there is a pipe attached to the fuel line on the priming bulb that had cuts in it, but couldn't tell if that's where air sound was coming from, anyway, after priming for 15, I tried to start on key and no good, cranked away but didn't kick. Hand to bump start(hill start) again, for hill start it only needs a Small run(about 10/15 feet)


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