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Ongoing EGR? / Limp mode / Cruise control issues
#1
Hi All,

2008 1.6hdi multispace here with 161K on the clock

Every time we think its dead, we manage to tweak a few more months out of it ! We have had ongoing issues with EGR faults (local garage have cleaned it out twice, and last weekend I had to do it myself as were about to head off to Cornwall and it threw up the error code again, and required starting off the jump pack)

Since this time - no return of the light - great. BUT we have 2 other unusual issues (and no fault lights or codes!)

Issue 1:
Only on SHORT journeys (less than 1/4 mile in this case) after car was sat for 4 or so hours and had no issues starting. Drove down to pick up kids and wife so they didnt have to walk all the way back to the car park, and then it refused to turn over. Jumper pack on it, gets it going again, and then drove 200 miles home from cornwall, with 2 stops and no further issues. 

It been running all week again without the error. But we have had this a few times in the last few months

It has new fuel rail less than 12 months ago, and new alternator 2 years ago, I also cleaned up the MAF sensor

Issue 2: Random limp mode / cruise control death
Again, some days we drive it with no issues, others, it wont let the engine go over 3K revs, and wont engage cruise control (not that thats a major issue, but noticed its a by-product)

I'm looking at getting a new EGR as despite cleaning it all out the other week it seems to be the cause of a lot of our issues. But dont want to waste time or money if this isnt likley going to help. Also considering a blanking plate at the same time ?  Or if i went down this route, would it not matter if the egr was new/ working correctly anyway ?

Would appreicate any help. Its not worth much now but if we can keep it ticking over it would be a massive help as 2nd hand market is so crazy at the moment !
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#2
Blanking plates throw up a big orange warning light on the dash for the B9 models. The older M59 didn't care, but these ones do.

Have you considered the cam sensor, as no cam to crank sync when running will likely cause 3k rpm limit, and none on startup will prevent starting. But maybe your battery is aging too.

Have you got Diagbox or can you get it? I posted a document for diagnosis of limp mode in the how-to section. Have a read of that. 3k limit is specific to a small handful of issues. See here:

https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-20797.html
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#3
Thanks for the blanking plate info thats out for now then !

Its refusing to start now unless its jumped. Getting 12.1 reading on the battery, so assume this is not the issue.

Have had a raft of codes today though, and dont know if its finally time to knock it on the head, despite having 11 months on the MOT, its on 161K and dont want to spend too much more on it
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#4
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#5
Im at a point where I am considering putting a new EGR on it, dont know if this is going to help fix the issue from the above codes or not ? This is something I am relatively happy doing, as have taken the EGR off a couple of times to clean it now. Does this look to be the most likely culprit ?
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#6
You could try that though if the EGR was actually faulty you should also have an airflow error - too high or too low. But you never know.

P0606 is concerning - but keep reading...

Fault code P0606
After sales description of the fault code ECU fault : Not characterised
Description of the diagnostics Possibility 1 : ECU voltage problem

Possibility 2 : Fault internal to the ECU microprocessor

Conditions of activation of the diagnostics: Ignition on
Conditions of disappearance of the fault Possibility 1 : Disappearance of the ECU voltage problem
Possibility 2 : Resolution of the fault internal to the ECU microprocessor

Down-grade modes if fault present: All of the regulation functions are inactive
Switching on of the warning light and/or warning message:

ABS indicator lamp
SERVICE indicator lamp
STOP warning light

Main customer complaints likely Lighting of the ABS and ESP warning lamps

Myself, being it will not start unless jumped, I would 100% fit a new battery. It will not go wrong and can be reused or sold on if it didn't help, but I would be sorely tempted to fit one, which should solve the issues,. These codes are likely the result of the voltage on the battery bombing when trying to start it.

.
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2017 B9 1.6 BlueHDi Van
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2003 M59 1.9D Van
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#7
thanks for the response ! Im afraid I didnt get an email notification so didnt see them until now

Good news is, fitted new EGR and majority of errors have gone, with the excpetion of P0606

Will try a new battery tomorrow, and see if that sorts it, if not, It might be time to say goodbye Sad
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#8
I think it will resolve that issue. If it doesn't, then yes, you potentially have a tricky ECU issue to resolve.

That is doable but with caveats.

Let us know how the battery swap goes. We can tell you from there how to proceed if it doesn't fix that issue. Not too expensive either. But battery first.

Fingers crossed for you.
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Current:
Not a Citroen!
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Previous:
2017 B9 1.6 BlueHDi Van
2012 B9 1.6 HDi Van
2008 M59 1.6 HDi Van
2003 M59 1.9D Van
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#9
hi guys, so I put the battery on charge overnight, and boom, started up this morning. Left it until got back from work this evening, and it started up again, so went out and put a bit of diesel in

I was on my way to get a battery when I noticed that despite running, Im still in a limp mode with the engine not delivering full power Sad

I ran the live ECU data and had a consistent reading of 13.4v

Does this suggest the battery is shot ? Or is this where you would expect it to be.

I never got the battery in the end as it was over £100 and as the car is still in limp mode, thought that maybe this isnt a battery related issue ?

Thanks
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#10
The 13.4v was while running? At the battery it should be 14.4v and 13.4v at the OBD adaptor. But this voltage is coming from the alternator, not the battery.

The battery only starts the engine. The alternator provides the rest once running.

If you don't change the battery then you may be stuck with the starting problem. Limp mode is not battery related but starting easily with a fully charged battery certainly is a sign the battery is not getting to full charge when running. If the starting issue comes back after a few days and only goes away when the battery is fully charged at home, then it's either a bad battery or bad alternator. 13.4v at the OBD socket means the alternator seems fine. At the battery then that's not fine and is too low.

You could have more than one issue. We can only help so much on a forum; the rest is up to you or a mechanic / auto electrician I'm afraid.

How do you know full power is not being delivered? Limp mode has two settings, 3000rpm and 2500rpm, even in neutral. Anything else is not limp mode.

Otherwise, your turbo could be shot, you could have an air leak, a boost leak, a faulty fuel pressure sensor / regulator, clogged fuel filter, many things.

When was it last serviced and the fuel and air filters changed?

Does it have any fault codes now?

What rpm does it stop at when revved hard in neutral?

If it goes all the way then it is one of the issues above, not limp mode. I put up a Citroen tech training document in the how-to section on limp mode, what causes it and how to test it. Have a look at that. It's in the top section of permanent threads.
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Current:
Not a Citroen!
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Previous:
2017 B9 1.6 BlueHDi Van
2012 B9 1.6 HDi Van
2008 M59 1.6 HDi Van
2003 M59 1.9D Van
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