HELPPPPPPP, citroen extended warranty team rejected our claim

[yingxue2022]

So I have a citroen berlingo panel van (Aug 2019make now 39K miles). The vehicle has a engine cut out in February 2023, and it is suggested of timing belt snapped possibly due to lack of service.  The dealer suggested a new engine to be replaced which cost nearly 7K pounds, luckily Citroen customer care is willing to pay 80% of the cost and said the 20% remaining to be covered by extended warranty team.

However the extended warranty team declined the claim, because they said service out of date for 18months and by 4150miles. This is impossible because the dealer confirmed that service was carried out in June 2022 at my request, so there is no way it is out of date for 18months. However the dealer can not provide service receipt to me or the warranty team, so the relevant parties are refusing to solve the issue for me and insisted that I need to pay the 20% balance. The manager at the dealer is now blaming me for the delay and ask me to pay 25pounds parking charge per day because of a mistake they have made (but they deny that they have any mistake which I can prove with email evidence).  He also said that I am causing trouble because they are running business and cant keep my vehicle forever.

I don't feel comfortable to pay because firstly I have paid for extended warranty and has had service carried out as requested (though they cant find the record as explained from dealer). Also I have had to pay few hundred pounds already for tow truck because dealer made mistake with admission. Instead of trying to solve the issue and address things properly, the branch manager now blames me and said I should be grateful already to only have to pay 20%. I am indeed but the previous experience I have with dealer simply make me worried that there will be issues following in another issue in the future, I can't even trust when they say a engine replacement because after all it is a timing belt fault so maybe they will only need to change a timing belt instaed of engine replacement as they claim. 


I have had absolutely nighmare experience with dearler since day one and it seems like they can do whatever they want and dont have to take any consequence. This is so unfair for customers, last year there was a small adblue problem and it took them 5 months to fix ( if I had not had evidence from private garage of where the problem is maybe it will still not get fixed within warranty). The dealer's customer service is rather dissapointing, and I feel like there is nothing I can do at all but to give in to whatever they ask. They claimed that service was carried out in March 2022 but all they could send is an estimate invoice instead of a real service receipt. 



So my question is 1） if I get extended warranty for next year, will they still decline claim since there is a service gap? 2) is it still worth for me to keep the vehicle if the dealer did change the engine ? I say did, because I am not confident that they will definitely replace a new engine.  



lastly, I want to know what exactly is the service requriment for extended warranty as it is quite confusing on the booklet? thanks  



It is a condition of this warranty that your vehicle is serviced at regular
intervals, as recommended by its manufacturer. We recommend
throughout the warranty period, servicing and repair work to be carried
out by an authorised Citroën repairer. It is important that you retain your
service receipts as they may be required to validate any claim you make.
Services must be carried out within one month/1,000 miles of the
intervals specified by the vehicle manufacturer, whichever comes first.

[notsofast]

Which engine does your vehicle have?  I'm not aware of any engine used in these vehicles which requires the timing belt be changed before 39,000 miles.  Can you get clarification from the dealer what they mean by belt failure "possibly due to lack of service"?  Also was the vehicle serviced at all before June 2022?

[yingxue2022]

Which engine does your vehicle have?  I'm not aware of any engine used in these vehicles which requires the timing belt be changed before 39,000 miles.  Can you get clarification from the dealer what they mean by belt failure "possibly due to lack of service"?  Also was the vehicle serviced at all before June 2022?

Hi it is Berlingo 1000 Enterprise BHDI SSA 1499CC engine, the garage wasn't suggeting it is possibly due to lack of service ( the warranty team suggested because they can't find record of recent service even though the garage confirmed it was carried out). I don't know why they have to replace the whole engine if it is just timing belt, but a friend told me that the valve and other parts might have been damaged as well so it is fine. But I am not even confident that they will carry out a new engine replacement with the terrible experience I had with the dealer, I dont have much trust of what they say they will do if you know what I mean. 

The vehicle was serviced at 12000miles first, then at 25000miles which it should supposed to be serviced which is June 2022 (but the dealer failed to provide service receipt to any party who requested, they can not even provide to Citroen customer care even though they did confirm it was carried out, their whole adminitration is awful and communication is nearly impossible). 

My quesiton is that since now the warranty team has found a gap in the service , even if I buy another extend warranty they will not authorise claim in the future if anything happens again right? Also I feel like it is unfair to me that dealer can do anything wrong but dont have to take any consequense.

[notsofast]

Why were you not provided with a receipt/invoice yourself, for the work done in June 2022?  Did you not request one?  Has your service book not been stamped by the dealer?

I would pursue more vigorously the fact that the dealer say that they did the scheduled service work.  If they cannot provide any records at all then maybe Trading Standards should be informed.

If you are not confident about the dealer changing the engine, ask if it can be done by a different dealer, or request that you are present when the work is done.

You might find the following thread of interest - it might shed some light on the timing belt issue (though I would also request more details from the dealer who made the inspection/assessment):
https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-23596.html

[yingxue2022]

Why were you not provided with a receipt/invoice yourself, for the work done in June 2022?  Did you not request one?  Has your service book not been stamped by the dealer?

I would pursue more vigorously the fact that the dealer say that they did the scheduled service work.  If they cannot provide any records at all then maybe Trading Standards should be informed.

If you are not confident about the dealer changing the engine, ask if it can be done by a different dealer, or request that you are present when the work is done.

You might find the following thread of interest - it might shed some light on the timing belt issue (though I would also request more details from the dealer who made the inspection/assessment):
https://www.berlingoforum.com/thread-23596.html

[yingxue2022]

Which engine does your vehicle have?  I'm not aware of any engine used in these vehicles which requires the timing belt be changed before 39,000 miles.  Can you get clarification from the dealer what they mean by belt failure "possibly due to lack of service"?  Also was the vehicle serviced at all before June 2022?

hi I just noticed that your work van is  2020 1.5 BlueHDi 100 Enterprise Berlingo , BERLINGO M DIESEL - 1.5 BlueHDi 1000Kg Enterprise 130ps EAT8 [S/S] 

it is only Aug 2019 make, just few months younger than your work van maybe, it has been totally nighmare dealing with dealers... everytime they have made a simple thing to a complicated painful precesure to go through, just because I am not the first owner and it is purchased from private dealer maybe? 

[pjb1969]

If your engine is the 1.5 hdi (1499) ad not the 1.6hdi (1560) i doubt its the cambelt, its more likely to be the link chein between the cams, very common problem even at low mileages, PSA are very aware of it and have a recall/preventative fix for any vehicles showing signs of a worn chain.

I would persist with them, its a poor design.

The worst case scenario a snapped link chain or a broke cambelt is not terminal on either engine, in most cases its just broke rockers, if unlucky belt valves, turned cam lobes, but nothing terminal or that expensive in relation to a new engine cost.

[yingxue2022]

The vehicle had been recovered to the dealership with a report of a non-start and the wheels locked up.

Inspection found the timing chain between the two camshafts had broken. The timing belt between the crank and the inlet camshaft was intact and ok.

As a result of the inlet/exhaust camshaft timing chain breaking, further catastrophic damage has occurred.

The last service, which was due during the present owner’s ownership, was found to be some 9 months and 4150 miles overdue, reference the 25000 mile/24 months service schedule.
Given that the tensioner is oil fed with the timing chain assembly lubrication related, there is a direct link to the present failure.



pjb1969If your engine is the 1.5 hdi (1499) ad not the 1.6hdi (1560) i doubt its the cambelt, its more likely to be the link chein between the cams, very common problem even at low mileages, PSA are very aware of it and have a recall/preventative fix for any vehicles showing signs of a worn chain.

I would persist with them, its a poor design.

The worst case scenario a snapped link chain or a broke cambelt is not terminal on either engine, in most cases its just broke rockers, if unlucky belt valves, turned cam lobes, but nothing terminal or that expensive in relation to a new engine cost.

[Sol]

The last service, which was due during the present owner’s ownership, was found to be some 9 months and 4150 miles overdue, reference the 25000 mile/24 months service schedule. Given that the tensioner is oil fed with the timing chain assembly lubrication related, there is a direct link to the present failure.

Is this true? If it is, and your service was carried out 4150 miles after the 25000 mile point, OR 9 months after the annual date, then you have no come-back, they quote these figures in your warranty for a reason. If you miss the date OR the mileage limit then you forfeit the warranty on those grounds. 

Oil pressure controls the inter-camshaft timing chain tensioner and if it fails, the cams lock up and the engine is badly damaged. I would be grateful to only have a fraction to pay and not the entire amount. I had this issue years ago with an Audi and they refused to pay anything at all. It cost me £5000 for a new 1.8T engine when the car was 2 years old. Same issue, similar reason. I had the car serviced at a local garage and the wrong grade of oil was used, leading to sludge forming in the sump and loss of oil pressure to the cam chain tensioner. 

The engine was scrap and I was not able to claim on the warranty due to the service not listing the correct oil type.

[yingxue2022]

The vehicle had been recovered to the dealership with a report of a non-start and the wheels locked up.

Inspection found the timing chain between the two camshafts had broken. The timing belt between the crank and the inlet camshaft was intact and ok.

As a result of the inlet/exhaust camshaft timing chain breaking, further catastrophic damage has occurred.

The last service, which was due during the present owner’s ownership, was found to be some 9 months and 4150 miles overdue, reference the 25000 mile/24 months service schedule.
Given that the tensioner is oil fed with the timing chain assembly lubrication related, there is a direct link to the present failure.



pjb1969If your engine is the 1.5 hdi (1499) ad not the 1.6hdi (1560) i doubt its the cambelt, its more likely to be the link chein between the cams, very common problem even at low mileages, PSA are very aware of it and have a recall/preventative fix for any vehicles showing signs of a worn chain.

I would persist with them, its a poor design.

The worst case scenario a snapped link chain or a broke cambelt is not terminal on either engine, in most cases its just broke rockers, if unlucky belt valves, turned cam lobes, but nothing terminal or that expensive in relation to a new engine cost.