Electric window puzzle

[Arjayem]

Hi,

I've got myself a 2004 1.4 petrol Berlingo. One of the little problems with it is the drivers side electric window not working. I didn't think this would be too much of a problem to sort but my auto-electrical knowledge is a couple of decades out of date, someone has been in there before me and I have no manual. 

Summary passenger window works when the engine is running. I've found that this is because someone has spliced a power supply directly to the switch (no idea where from) after they cut what I assume was the original power wire. Other than that there seems to be no power to the drivers switch, the motor, or the the Electric Window Module (ECM).

Looking online there seems to be a number of possible configurations of how the windows could be wired and which fuses might be involved. All the fuses I've found are good (interior panel drivers side and fuse box by battery)

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Robin.

[Zion]

Fuse F12 on the BSI (behind the glovebox) is the 30A fuse for both windows. Remove the glovebox to access it properly.

   

I can likely get the schematics from home but if you can't follow them, they won't help much,  it I'll give an explanation of how to do that.

I'll log on to my work system and see if I can download them for you now.

This fuse diagram and the following schematics are official Citroen documents and are accurate, as can be, regardless of what else you found online.

[Zion]

Ok here goes. Plugs are named as per 23V NR means 23 pin Black, 5V JN means 5 pin yellow. (All colours are abbreviated from French)

Pin numbers themselves are in square boxes at the end of the wire.

Legende shows colour abbreviations, Citroen Components shows what device is what (in the diagrams they are shown as 1320 for example, look that up in this file. 1320 is Injection Control Unit, which is the main ECU just as an example)

The rest are the schematics for your window system in the M59. It's not too hard to follow them when you know the above info. Take time and trace wires on the diagram. All items, wires, pin numbers, plugs and fuses are shown.

Any questions, post them here and we'll help further.

[Arjayem]

Many thanks for that info, it should help a lot. As far as I can tell I have 12v power through fuse 12 but it doesn't seem to get out to the control unit or switches (of course the passenger switch has that rogue feed). I'll look through the pdfs and see if I can narrow down where the problem lies.
Thanks again for you help so far.

[Arjayem]

I've now had a more thorough look at the electrics. Everywhere I go someone has been there before me!

There seems to be a lack of continuity between the connectors to the bsi control module fuse box and the connector on the Sequential electric window unit. The bsi control module fuse box has also been prised open at some point in the past and continuity (between pins and fuses) doesn't seem to match that of the diagrams.
For now I've put everything back together and will investigate further when I have more time. Out of interest is easy to get a replacement bsi control module fuse box and does it require anything more than just plugging in?

[Zion]

Unfortunately, You can't just replace the BSI, its a computer with a motherboard inside, containing the relays for everything non engine related, plus the immobiliser which means critically it is coded to your key transponders and your VIN number. There are people out there who can reset a used one (virginise it they call that) and then code it up as a replacement for your original, but the replacement needs to be identical in every way, including part number and capability level (there are 3 capability levels, L/M/H) and it isn't possible to just fit a swapper from a scrap car. This is not a cheap process either, probably a couple of hundred quid upward if you can find someone who can do it.

It is doable however with the right electronics shop involved and a spare part that is suitable.

Prising the BSI open is a bit of a dark art as it is easily damaged if not done correctly. There are multipin connectors between the layers of circuit boards, the top half being fuses and plugs, bottom half computer and relays.

Maybe just wire a supply to both door controllers and use the local buttons. Sounds like this is where you came in!

[Gryffindor]

I would agree with Zion.
Either your 1.4 is a rare classic and a complete replacement loom is financially sound, or you leave the spaghetti as it is (at least the car works despite the tinkering) and just bypass the mess with your own bespoke mini-loom from any suitable fuse to the door window switches.

Put a note by the fuse saying which one now supplies those switches, in case you forget over time.

[Arjayem]

Many thanks Zion and Gryffindor.
I thought that might be the case. I've done my best to tape the BSI back together (all but one of the clips had been broken). I think I'll take your suggestion to wire a supply to the switches as the car seems to still work fine (other than the window and the cooling fan - which I expect is down to the relay or resistor - I just need to drill out the seized bumper screws to get at it).
Now to find an ignition feed - perhaps the cigarette lighter would be a good source?

Thanks again, Robin.

[Zion]

Could be, it is rated @ 10A, however the window fuse was 30A. Maybe have to think about what you wire it up to. One door wired to the aux socket should be fine though. Since one already works.

[cancunia]

Not sure about the 1.4 but the diesel M59's have a window controller somewhere near the accelerator pedal. The controller does go wrong and maybe that's why the window switch has been rewired. The controller allows things like the 'single touch' to put the window fully down.