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[Engine] Fuel Pump (I think)
#1
Hi All

I am after some advice please, I think it is fuel pump related but not sure. 

We have had our 2012 1.6 HDi (75) van for almost 6 years and we have covered 80K more or less trouble free miles in it, it has now done 144K and is well maintained. A couple of days ago it started to make an unusual sound from the engine area, a sort of old school tappet sound. I check the oil level which was good, had a prod and poke as you do, but couldn’t see anything obvious. So carried on driving home with no issues other that the unusual sound. Today my son started it up, he could hear the sound as well, he drove about 150 yards when the van started to struggle, like sparadic fuel delivery, 50 yards after that the van just died. The engine will turn over but will not start, it doesn’t even try to start, it just cranks over. 

Does this sound like the fuel pump has given up, would a failing fuel pump make an old school tappet sound before giving up, if so where is the fuel pump located exactly, and is it a simple bolt off and back on job, or does it create part of the timing belt set up, in which case is it a lock off the fly wheel / crank with a locking pin and clamp down the cam shaft job to remove and replace the fuel pump, in which case I will replace the timing belt at the same time. 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated 

Thank you in advance 

Kind Regards

Tom
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#2
I think your fuel pump is in the fuel tank. You can sometimes hear it pumping when the ignition is switched
so the noise is probably not the fuel pump.

If the noise was something in the engine then it could be quite serious.
2020 Rifter 1.5 allure
2010 B9 red XTR w a v. 
2001 1.9d DW8B white  Berlingo  
2005 2.l green Berlingo
2001 1.9d DW8B white  Berlingo 
berlingo 1.4 red multispace
1993 xud 1.9 red partner
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#3
(31-05-2024, 06:14 PM)brodfather11 Wrote:  I think your fuel pump is in the fuel tank. You can sometimes hear it pumping when the ignition is switched
so the noise is probably not the fuel pump.

If the noise was something in the engine then it could be quite serious.
Hi Broadfather11

Thank you for replying, even if it’s the type of information I was hoping it wouldn’t be ?. It was definitely coming from the engine / engine bay, and the tapping sound increased and decreased with the rev range of the engine. 

Kind Regards 

Tom
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#4
Do you have a scanner , then possible a scan may show something.

Has it had the timing belt renewed ?

I would check if the timing belt is intact . There were accounts of the auxiliary belt fraying and the threads getting into the timing belt area and causing the timing belt to fail.

But it may not be a failed belt but something simple that could be fixed easily , you've got to start somewhere




.
2020 Rifter 1.5 allure
2010 B9 red XTR w a v. 
2001 1.9d DW8B white  Berlingo  
2005 2.l green Berlingo
2001 1.9d DW8B white  Berlingo 
berlingo 1.4 red multispace
1993 xud 1.9 red partner
Reply
#5
(31-05-2024, 07:41 PM)brodfather11 Wrote:  Do you have a scanner , then possible a scan may show something.

Has it had the timing belt renewed ?  

I would check if the timing belt is intact .   There were accounts of the auxiliary belt fraying and the threads getting into the timing belt area and causing the timing belt to fail.

But it may not be a failed belt but something simple that could be fixed easily , you've got to start somewhere
Hi Brodfather 11
Thank you again for replying 
I’m heading over to my sons tomorrow with a Scanner to see if it picks anything up, hopefully it will  and give me a clue on what the issue may be. the timing belt was done by the original owner at just over 60K miles, we bought the van at 66K miles, but in fairness that was 80K miles ago now, so it’s down about 85K miles now (how the miles fly). The ancillary belt is less than a year old, it frayed and pulled out the crank sensor last year, causing the engine to stop in a similar way that it did this morning  ( but without the tapping sound leading up to it), I’ve check the crank sensor is in place, all good. 
Kind Regards 
Tom
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#6
(As usual, internet diagnosis is really impossible...)

Was it a reluctant starter?

I'd take a flyer at the HP fuel pump, which is driven off the cambelt. Not the easiest thing to change, mostly thanks to poor access behind the engine. Not especially complex though. I suspect the rattle you heard would be the injectors complaining under low fuel pressure.

Start with the basics - good filter, clean fuel, fuel in the tank, fuel at the filter, etc. I'd hope to see some fault codes about low fuel pressure, and the rail pressure is available in live data.

Be sure the HP system is depressurised before opening anything. "hydraulic injection injury" is not something you want to Google because you've just done it to yourself. Gloves, eye protection.
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to shtu for this post:
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#7
(31-05-2024, 07:41 PM)brodfather11 Wrote:  Do you have a scanner , then possible a scan may show something.

Has it had the timing belt renewed ?  

I would check if the timing belt is intact .   There were accounts of the auxiliary belt fraying and the threads getting into the timing belt area and causing the timing belt to fail.

But it may not be a failed belt but something simple that could be fixed easily , you've got to start somewhere




.
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#8
(31-05-2024, 08:33 PM)shtu Wrote:  (As usual, internet diagnosis is really impossible...)

Was it a reluctant starter?

I'd take a flyer at the HP fuel pump, which is driven off the cambelt. Not the easiest thing to change, mostly thanks to poor access behind the engine. Not especially complex though. I suspect the rattle you heard would be the injectors complaining under low fuel pressure.

Start with the basics - good filter, clean fuel, fuel in the tank, fuel at the filter, etc. I'd hope to see some fault codes about low fuel pressure, and the rail pressure is available in live data.

Be sure the HP system is depressurised before opening anything. "hydraulic injection injury" is not something you want to Google because you've just done it to yourself. Gloves, eye protection.

Hi Shtu

Thank you for your reply. 

The tapping sound definitely came from the injector / top end engine area, hence why I described it as an old school tappet knock sound. The engine fired up first time for me a couple of days ago when I was using it, and fired up first time this morning when my son was using it; however, when I was driving it a couple of days ago I did think it felt slow, slightly underpowered compared to how it use to feel, but I put this down to just me imagining it as I had been driving about in my L200 for a couple of weeks before getting into the Berlingo. 

Could I ask how do I de-pressurise the fuel system if I do need to change the HP Fuel Pump, and with it being driven off the cam belt, do I need to lock anything off, such as the fly wheel / crank with a locking pin, or clamp down the cam shaft, etc. 

Kind Regards 

Tom
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#9
The depressurisaion - leave it say 10-15s after any engine cranking or running, that should be plenty, the system should drop to nothing in a matter of moments. (again, live data will show the rail pressure)

Never ever be tempted to open a HP union to check for fuel flow with the engine cranking or running.

The HP lines are supposed to be single use as they're a flared connection, and they're not expensive. I reused mine when changing injectors.

The injector rattle is likely one of two things,
- Lack of fuel pressure.
- Knackered injector(s).

Knackered injector may also come with a lumpy idle, white smoke and a diesel smell from the exhaust.

If you do diagnose a failed HP pump, treat it as a cambelt swap with some extra steps to swap the HP pump, the cheap eBay\Amaxon crank and cam locking pin sets are fine for the purpose.

The HP pump is NOT timed to the engine like old-school systems. There is a locking pin location, but it doesn't actually achieve anything as the HP pump only pressurises the rail, injector timing is fully electronic. Use it if it makes you feel better Big Grin

Another thought - there's probably some form of pressure regulator for the rail, I've not delved deeply into the system.
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#10
(31-05-2024, 10:19 PM)shtu Wrote:  The depressurisaion - leave it say 10-15s after any engine cranking or running, that should be plenty, the system should drop to nothing in a matter of moments. (again, live data will show the rail pressure)

Never ever be tempted to open a HP union to check for fuel flow with the engine cranking or running.

The HP lines are supposed to be single use as they're a flared connection, and they're not expensive. I reused mine when changing injectors.

The injector rattle is likely one of two things,
- Lack of fuel pressure.
- Knackered injector(s).

Knackered injector may also come with a lumpy idle, white smoke and a diesel smell from the exhaust.

If you do diagnose a failed HP pump, treat it as a cambelt swap with some extra steps to swap the HP pump, the cheap eBay\Amaxon crank and cam locking pin sets are fine for the purpose.

The HP pump is NOT timed to the engine like old-school systems. There is a locking pin location, but it doesn't actually achieve anything as the HP pump only pressurises the rail, injector timing is fully electronic. Use it if it makes you feel better Big Grin

Another thought - there's probably some form of pressure regulator for the rail, I've not delved deeply into the system.

Hi Shtu

Thank you for the additional information, it’s greatly appreciated. I’ll be checking the scanner tomorrow to see if it shows a low fuel pressure fault and go from there. 

Kind Regards 

Tom
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