[Engine] Turbo issues

[hodgsoi]

Hi guys, been lurking about for a while soaking up the good advice, no problems to speak of until now.
I have a 56 1.6 HDI which threw a wobbly last week - the turbo decided to throw its' hand in after 85k. I did all the oil changes etc. as per schedule, used the correct oil and still it went. Anyway, I got the turbo cartridge replaced and the rest of the bits sandblasted and it was looking like new.
I flushed out the engine, replaced the oil feed and return pipe, cleaned the sump etc. Got quite a bit of carbon out of the system. Checked the injectors and found that No3 had a bit of crud around the base. Managed to tighten them all up a bit.
I refitted the turbo and cranked it over as per the instructions until I got an oil flow from the return into an empty container. So far so good.
I restarted the motor and it was all looking good until I took it for a test run. When the turbo kicked in around 1800 rpm there was a loud whine form the engine which got louder as the revs went up. I checked over everything again and found that if I disconnected the wastegate actuator, the whine stopped but obviously performance was well down.
Another thing is that the engine will not rev past 3000rpm either with the actuator connected or disconnected.
I've checked all the hoses for leaks and blockages and everything seems to be in order.

Has anyone any experience of this -it is starting to drive me crazy. Could it be the actuator solenoid?

Any help is gratefully received.

Thanks.

[polar]

Hi hodgsoi,

ive been hoping someone else would step up to this challenge be apparently not.

having been off the tools a while these hdi are all very new to me but I will give you my thoughts.

Question did it rev past 3000rpm before your turbo blew and when the turbo blew would it still go past 3000?

But to me, and I may be wrong, it does sound like you still have a turbo problem - have you re checked the bush and shaft?

[Coco]

Any EML? Sounds like safe mode has been invoked - that will limit your revs.

Check for codes and any loose pipework

[hodgsoi]

Hi Polar, Coco thanks for your replies guys.
Polar, you are correct - new turbo has gone also. Today I fitted replacement No2 - I cleaned out the sump, replaced the oil pick up strainer, new oil feed line and banjo minus the in line filter. Cranked the motor over until I got oil from the feed pipe. Connected the feed pipe and cranked her over again until I got oil from the return line. I then started the motor and ran approx, 5 litres of oil in batches from the return line into a bucket just to make sure that there was a good flow and that I had removed all the crud from the system. The oil was a lovely shade of murky black.
I then put everything back together and started her up.I was greeted with swathes of blue smoke and what sounded like a big end rattling. Stopped the engine and checked around. Thought that maybe the oil level was slightly too high so I drained a little off and restarted. Still getting blue smoke but noticed a drip of oil coming from the wastegate actuautor. So oil obviously going through the turbo either from the seals or from the engine. Car running well apart from this.
Lost the will to live at the moment so I have abandoned it for the night. Tomorrow is another day. Cheers.

[polar]

Bloody hell Hodgsoi I feel for you mate!

Don't know what to say - was the 2nd turbo a recon?

[hodgsoi]

Yeah Polar, it was an exchange unit but from a different supplier. This one appears to know what he is talking about. He gave me chapter and verse on all the problems he has seen and I've read about and told me an interesting story.
He did work for a guy who runs a small fleet of 1.6 HDI's and most are around 300k. He says that this guy swears by taking the sump off every 4th or 5th oil change and changes the oil pick up. He also drills a couple of extra holes in the base for good measure. He has also noticed that on the base of the pick up there 3 small raised spots which must give the clearance between the strainer and the sump base. He says that he has noticed that on some engines these raised spots have been worn away. It must be with the pick up vibrating against the sump. The theory being that if this is all the clearance there is for oil pick up then if the clearance is being worn away then the pick up must be at some point touching the bottom of the sump. Also, if this is all the clearance there is (around 6mm) then if there is any sludge, deposits etc. in the sump then its no wonder that this crud is either being sucked up and distributed around the system or interfering with the suction of the oil pump. When I removed my sump and strainer I found that the mesh had been sucked up into a concave shape as if it had been blocked and the pump sucked it into this shape. I also found carbon deposits on the strainer.

[Noel Brig]

I agree the sump needs to be removed and cleaned out every few oil changes - It is the most stupid design, take a look at the picture below. The plug is raised from the bottom of the sump by about 18mm, so on draining the sump you always leave some oil inside, when I had the sump of mine i measured it at 225ml (that's a standard mug of coffee in volume) stays inside.

So basically when you drain the old oil off, you can't help but leave a mug full of the thickest, blackest, dirtiest oil inside the engine - no wonder new engine oil is blck after a few miles. So any gunge that accumulates in the sump won't come out until it is more that 18mm deep - that's about 12mm above the top of where the oil pump scavenges from.

It has to be one of the most mind bogglingly stupidest designs of all time.

[Image: 2s64t2x.jpg][/u]

[hodgsoi]

Hi Noel, yes it looks like the sump is better coming off every couple of oil changes. I never noticed how raised up it was around the sump plug - what a design disaster! It's a good job that the sump removal is a fairly straight forward job. This makes it even more important to take it off and give it a clean occasionally - that and very regular oil changes.

I've done around 300 miles now with the new turbo and "clean" system and so far no problems. Oil is still fairly clean so I'm reasonably confident that I have stemmed the problem.

Ian

[polar]

As an old school mechanic the thought of flushing an engine when doing an oil change is not the kind of thing I would ever do!

However on 1.6 hdi's I always do it, I also recommend old school type oil changes every 5 to 6 thousand miles by doing this a few of my mates have managed 100k so far without any problems.

On my own I will not go over 5k with oil changes and I always flush!

[jamesg]

Wow, I'm stunned at that design. It makes you wonder if you'd get more out using suctioning that they tell you not to use on this engine!