digital over analog have we gained by it ?

[leso]

i partly agree on some of your points, it would be more ideal if the systems were separate to each other because when one goes' down it affects other systems not associated with the fault, IE if all engine temp and fuel monitors where kept apart from the engine management it would be an easier task to track the fault, but when you got the likes of BSI units one thing will go down and affect a lot of other areas on the car/truck, as for reliability of solid state componants we are still getting a high rate of failure in critical management areas, you have seen on this site how high the BSI faults are, and lastly on agric units which i have worked on as you say is going the same way....as the old saying goes keep it simple........

[Opensauce]

I think its mainly about reducing fuel consumption & lowering emissions because the technology exists to do it. I recall in the 80s you had a definite choice between diesel & petrol. Diesel, no performance but very low fuel consumption. Petrol higher fuel cost but better performance. I liked my '84 diesel Escort, it went well enough for me & fuel consumption was probably better than todays 1600 diesels, but I hate to think what the emissions were like. To be on the safe side you did have to change cambelt every 30k miles but it was reasonably easy diy. As long as that was done the engine was reliable.

What is odd is that the life of today's car is no more than a 70s car for completly different reasons. In the 70s you could almost watch a Cortina rot away, the 1600 crossflow engine was simple to fix but after 10-12yrs the car was probably scrap because the body was so rotten it wern't worth the cost of welding for mot. I used to think then, why not galvanise it? Now we have cars that don't rust but after 10-12yrs the cost of mechanical repairs may still render the car as beyond economical repair.

[leso]

being a diesel fitter/tech for many years i have seen the improvement on mainly diesel performance this is only due to tuning and lightning of internal componants con-rods pistons Ect, then you have the high pressure common rail system which improves air/fuel ratio (tuning) that works ok then you get some bod who decides because of the emissions getting stricter they come up with Exhaust gas recirculation , (EGR) good one guys screws up every thing your trying to do, after just 80k your car starts smoking the reason is unburnt exhaust gas cokes up the inlet manifold which restricts air so the air/fuel ratio is upset, i have cured countless cars/vans with this smoke problem, (after some garages saying the engine is worn out !) if you have a car/truck that smokes and has EGR fitted get the inlet manifold checked out before anything else it is a simple fix.........

[geoff]

Emissions or mpg or whatever the other tags may be the relentless advance of the electronic age as witnessed by the motor vehicle has left us all the more unable to remedy a fault by ourselves and with an even greater reliance on the motor garage than ever before, this to me is a great shame.
When you couple this to the apparent lack of ability by many modern garages and mechanics to be able to diagnose a fault correctly first time we as owners and more importantly our wallets are more prone than ever to being held to ransom, d**k Turpin still lives !
To be fair though, years ago before all the latest technology, when things were limited to say the Ford EDIS system - distributor-less ignition - many garages couldn't make a diagnosis on that let alone later equipment but then of course going further back there were many garages and mechanics who couldn't diagnose correctly with a contact breaker ignition system ...... I won't go into my thoughts on the Magdyno or the Dynastart.
So speaks the Luddite !! Actually I am a fan of technology but not always a fan of it's application.
I won't however rant against the garage charging to plug into the testing gear because I know it is expensive and the investment needs to be returned along with a profit which is fair enough.

[leso]

Emissions or mpg or whatever the other tags may be the relentless advance of the electronic age as witnessed by the motor vehicle has left us all the more unable to remedy a fault by ourselves and with an even greater reliance on the motor garage than ever before, this to me is a great shame.
When you couple this to the apparent lack of ability by many modern garages and mechanics to be able to diagnose a fault correctly first time we as owners and more importantly our wallets are more prone than ever to being held to ransom, d**k Turpin still lives !
To be fair though, years ago before all the latest technology, when things were limited to say the Ford EDIS system - distributor-less ignition - many garages couldn't make a diagnosis on that let alone later equipment but then of course going further back there were many garages and mechanics who couldn't diagnose correctly with a contact breaker ignition system ...... I won't go into my thoughts on the Magdyno or the Dynastart.
So speaks the Luddite !! Actually I am a fan of technology but not always a fan of it's application.
I won't however rant against the garage charging to plug into the testing gear because I know it is expensive and the investment needs to be returned along with a profit which is fair enough.

Spot on there Geoff, i would like the industry to reign in these Technos' who think they are doing some good, but they are not the one's thats got to repair it........

[pidgeonpost]

I used to do plenty of of DIY on my cars and bikes - partly out of interest but largely because I was skint. Now I've still got the interest but age, a dodgy back, and the complexity of modern cars means I do very little these days more's the pity. This complexity, its cost, and its fragility means that many drivers don't get the satisfaction of fixing their cars and saving themselves a few quid into the bargain. And plenty of serviceable cars go to the scrappy as a spinoff.

[ron]

I used to do plenty of of DIY on my cars and bikes - partly out of interest but largely because I was skint. Now I've still got the interest but age, a dodgy back, and the complexity of modern cars means I do very little these days more's the pity. This complexity, its cost, and its fragility means that many drivers don't get the satisfaction of fixing their cars and saving themselves a few quid into the bargain. And plenty of serviceable cars go to the scrappy as a spinoff.

I agree about the scrapping of mechanically sound cars due to the cost of electronic components.Environmentally friendly or what?Big business runs this planet.:brickwall:

[geoff]

If you can be in the right place at the right time it can work in your favour ^^^^

Recently a neighbour was selling his wife's nice condition Ford Focus 2004 late model 1.4 due to poor running issues, more like he had had a guts full of it ...... the car had been in a local garage several times with no resolution and costing money on each occasion with him pulling his hair out.......
I had a chat with him, took a chance and ended up buying it for a little over scrap value @ £170 total ....
All that was needed was a new TPS and a little of my time.

A good result for my " boy " as he needed another vehicle at the time

[chronyx]

I think electronic engine management is generally pretty good. Late 90's cars were a real sweet spot for reliability/price/simplicity.

But I was wondering recently, what are the benefits of multiplex wiring in my (Fairly basic) Berlingo?

If you want loads of toys I can see it would be necessary, but I can't see any advantages in this case, only possible negatives. Give me real switches that switch things, with a relay if needed! Worst that can happen there is lights fail one day. If the COM2000 shits itself, game over.

[geoff]

In the real world for Joe average there is no benefit in multiplexing ......
however ......
In an industrial setting it is a different ball game.
For example, on some of the older non multiplex robotic machines I worked on a few years ago there were three 40 core cables and two smaller cables of around 15 core that were being flexed back and forth whilst carrying a whole host of control signals ( these were a nightmare for conductor fractures and terminal failures ) ...... the next generation of machine used multiplexing and all of the above cabling was reduced to one single ten core cable.