Cold starting issues

[MettyMatty]

Whoops! - I tried to reply from my mobile but it obviously didn't like it.

The other night I fitted the 2nd replacement filter housing, primed it and it seemed to hold pressure a bit better.  I also cracked the banjos on the pump to witness fuel getting through.  Cranked it and it wouldn't start.  I abandoned it at this point as it was dark.

I've just gone out to have a proper go at diagnosing the fault as its actually not raining and in daylight and guess what? - There's bloody fuel weeping from the primer button.  3 in a row - Do I win a prize?

Can someone tell me with 100% confidence that no fuel should come out of the primer button at any time? - I can't believe I've got 3 with the same fault.

I'm not convinced this is my only issue but I really need to rule this out please?

Thanks.

[MettyMatty]

I had some assistance with this yesterday and the guy who helped me managed to get it going.

He said it was air in the fuel system. Although I'd checked for fuel at the pump and cracked one of the injectors it wasn't enough to bleed the air out.  He also said the compression seemed ok.  I took it for a run and apart for the clutch slipping for the first few miles which I think was from the diesel that was bled out, it seemed fine.

This morning I went out to check it (frosty today) and it won't start.  I guess it's got an air leak then?  The problem is where??  I can't see anything obvious although I still don't know about fuel around the primer plunger as nobody has been able to answer my question?  The leak off hoses look ok.

The other thing that isn't right is the egr component that sits behind the charcoal filter thing to the left of the engine.  The little cylindrical part with 2 vacuum attachments and an electrical plug. - This whistles whn the engines been run for a while and carries on few about 20 secs when the engine is stopped.  What is this component please and why is it whistling? - Blocked?

Please help as I've had this problem for about 3 weeks now and struggling to get by without it.

Thanks

[brajomobil]

Please help as I've had this problem for about 3 weeks now and struggling to get by without it.

Thanks

I had a pug 405 with similar problem. The cutoff valve on the bosch pump is bad and when you turn off the engine
fuel goes back to the tank. I have managed to fix it with putting non return valve right before bosch pump.
To confirm that you have the above problem fit a small hand pump on the fuel line close to bosch pump.
Like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10mm-Fuel-Prim...1536689139

In the morning before you start the car. Pump a lot until it feels hard. then start the car. If it starts then you know the problem.

[MettyMatty]

Thanks Brajomobil!  

Mine's a Lucas pump but the same prinicipal applies.

I've been out again this morning looking for leaks and managed to cut my thumb open whilst cracking the injector unions. - Spent the rest of the morning in A&E.

I physically can't do much more for a few days until my thumb heals so its going to my work mates for futher inspection.


Can anyone confirm if it is normal for some fuel to weep from the bleed plunger when used? - I've asked this a few times with little response.  All three of mine weep and I don't know if this is okay or not?

[ron]

You don't say weather you have checked the valve's or not the other thing is have you changed the fuel filter of late this can sometime's make them hard to start when cold ?

The fuel filter is relatively new and looks clean.

I haven't checked the valves.  I've spoken to a couple of mechanically minded people locally and they've said that it wouldn't have deteriorated so rapidly and that I wouldn't be getting the smoke out the back like I am. - Their opinion not mine so please don't flame me for it.

Ive got another fuel filter housing to try tonight (in wet and dark) so will report back in due course.

It's not so much rapid deterioration but much lower temp that you have to consider,What would start easily in summer may well not do so in winter.They're your valves,you don't have to check them.If they were my valves I would.  

[MettyMatty]

Yes, maybe the valves need checking but we've proved there's air in the fuel system and that its being drawn in overnight from somewhere.

I can't do any more for now as my hand is fooked. (can't bend my thumb due to steri-strips and dressing.)

It would really help if someone could tell me if the primer button weeps under normal working conditions but nobody seems able to.

Once the air leak is traced I'll check valve clearances but it fired up instantly and sounded fine once it had fuel.

[brodfather11]

hi MettyMatty

Just went and checked my blingo 2001 dw8 fuel filter/pump and as it has not been started today( @9.20am slight touch off frost. ) the pump button only works about 3/4 pumps before going solid, but I didn't force it very hard,  no leaks at it at all. So I think yours shouldn't leak at all.


The thermostatic sensor in the thermostat housing should be tight when cold, it operates the fast idle lever on the fuel pump. (its the other cable that goes to the fuel injection pump)

The egr solenoid valve is powered by the vacuum pump on the end of the engine, it is to open and shut valves by vacuum. My one doesn't hiss  so yours may have a leak in one of the pipes. But checking the smaller of the two pipes coming from the top its seems to have broken off the plastic nipple fitting at the other end on the dump valve  and was just hanging there doing nothing . It has not affected the starting /running . It shuts a flap in the inlet manifold/air/intake to stop the engine running on after switching off.  

Check that there are no wires rubbed through in the small loom the goes to the fuel inj. pump 

[brodfather11]

Hi MettyMatty ,
Been thinking again , if the manual pump is leaking it will draw air until the engine is running, the fuel inj. pump works by sucking fuel through the filter and air being lighter and easier to suck than fuel it will suck air through the leaky bit.. When its running then the power of the suction will suck some fuel as well as air. The trick is to get it running first then it will run all day.

[MettyMatty]

Thanks brodfather11,

My mate came to take it yesterday and it was a total pig to start. He bled it the same as before and this time it didn't want to know. We ended up taking the top off the fuel filter and witnessed the fuel in the filter housing drain away in about 30 secs. We did a mix and match of filter housing bits (I now a 3 to choose from) and re-bled it all. It still took a few attempts to start and we think that the pump was cavitating a bit but eventually it fired up and was fine once it ran.
There were signs of small metal swarf particles in the fuel filter which was clean when installed which is a bit of a worry (pump?)
I found the fault with on the egr! - There was a rivet in one of the vacuum hoses that was completely blocking it. Don't know if this was an attempt by someone to block it or what but it was a perfect fit to seal it.

Today I went out in frosty -2 temps and it wouldn't start. I've ordered an inline nrv for the line between filter and pump.

[ron]

Thanks brodfather11,

My mate came to take it yesterday and it was a total pig to start. He bled it the same as before and this time it didn't want to know.  We ended up taking the top off the fuel filter and witnessed the fuel in the filter housing drain away in about 30 secs.  We did a mix and match of filter housing bits (I now a 3 to choose from) and re-bled it all.  It still took a few attempts to start and we think that the pump was cavitating a bit but eventually it fired up and was fine once it ran.
There were signs of small metal swarf particles in the fuel filter which was clean when installed which is a bit of a worry (pump?)
I found the fault with on the egr! - There was a rivet in one of the vacuum hoses that was completely blocking it.  Don't know if this was an attempt by someone to block it or what but it was a perfect fit to seal it.

Today I went out in frosty -2 temps and it wouldn't start.  I've ordered an inline nrv for the line between filter and pump.

Blocking the vacuum pipe is a common way to disable the EGR.I did it on my old  C15.